Where to start; clutch or engine?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I would first pull the cylinder head to get a look at the bores. You will need to get the pistons moving to get the cylinder off the cases. Kerosene, PB Blaster, or (my favorite) Kroil can be put in the cylinders and the bike rocked back and forth to try to get them moving. I have a friend who took a piece of 1/2 inch plate and drilled it to bolt on the cylinder. Then he drilled holes in the center of the bores and welded on a couple 1/2 inch nuts. Then he threaded bolts in the nuts and welded on a large washer. He put penetrant in the cylinder to cover the piston and cranked down the bolts. Every day he would loosen the bolts, add more penetrant and crank down the bolts again. Finally, the rings let go and he was able to get the cylinder off. It still needed a rebore and new pistons, but at least the cylinder was usable.
 
An old trick for removing old fasteners - like the spark plug at the moment- is to tighten it first. Yep - takes less torque to break a siezed fitting by tightening than by loosening. You only need it to move the tiniest fraction of a turn. Then it can be loosened but you must do this very carefully especially since you are dealing with AL threads. I have never found any of the penetrating oils to actually break loose seriously seized fasteners but they can help once the fastener moves at all. Typically, you can break the sieze by tightening, then loosen maybe 1/8 turn, spray with WD40, PB, whatever; then tighten again. Loosen 1/4 turn, spray, tighten; loosen 3/4 turn, tighten, etc. Of course, if nothing else works, the flame wrench WILL!

Re MMO - had a friend who found a gas-powered cement mixer in a field. According to the owner, it hadn't run in 20 years and was seized solid. We put MMO in each of the cyls. The next day it could be turned through by hand. He changed the oil, put in new plugs and wires, cranked 'er up and she ran fine. That was in 1989 and he's still using that cement mixer - never changed a single engine part. MMO is famous for unseizing engines and there are a ton of accounts about it.
 
I agree. Stop where you are at. If you can't turn it at the rotornut, then there is no need to tax the gearbox to unfreeze the motor. Get the head pulled and re-access. We'll all be looking for you update.
 
Thanks for all of the input! I'll be taking all of the tips and work on it tomorrow. I will be giving updates of course as well.
 
Got some time to work on it today. Well... the stuck spark plug ripped off while still in the head. Also in the process the wrench hit one of the heat dissipating fins on the engine head and a medium size piece crumbled right off. Haha...

Reading around it seems that some people have had luck using an extractor set, we will see if I got that luck.
 
Yikes. Sounds like the plug is really frozen in there. You may have more luck (and do less damage) removing the remainder of the plug with the head off the motor. Suggest that you pull the engine, or at least remove the head so that you can deal with that problem separately and begin to address the stuck pistons in the bores.

Oh, and everybody loves pictures!
 
ncjasen said:
Reading around it seems that some people have had luck using an extractor set, we will see if I got that luck.
Click to expand...
If the plug is stuck tight enough that it snapped in half, that's exactly what's gonna happen to your extractor. Then you'll really be fooked. I think taking the head to a machine shop might be a wise move at this point.

Stu
 
I'll take some pics tomorrow and show everyone whats going on.

My plan for right now is take the head off and let the one side with the stuck spark plug soak in PBlaster and try to remove it. If that doesn't work to a machine shop I go.
 
ncjasen said:
I'll take some pics tomorrow and show everyone whats going on.

My plan for right now is take the head off and let the one side with the stuck spark plug soak in PBlaster and try to remove it. If that doesn't work to a machine shop I go.
Click to expand...

You should be able to drill out the center of the plug to fit an easy out to size. Add some heat (map gas) and I am sure it will come out. That is what a machine shop will do.
 
You (or your friend) need a manual and some whitworth tools. They are still available. Look at http://www.rgmmotors.co.uk/main.htm . Under literature you will find a workshop manual. It comes from England and will cost you about $30, a bargain compared to Honda manuals. Actually, Norton parts are pretty cheap compared to Honda. Stick to factory spares ( or people who frequent this site...) if you can. Some of the aftermarket stuff is junk.

Greg
 
Lucky me I have a workshop manual. The guy I'm doing this for got the manual off of ebay. Since he isn't doing the work he gave it to me. Oh and here are some pics. The side panels and tank are in good condition, I already took them off so they are not in the pic.
Where to start; clutch or engine?

Where to start; clutch or engine?
 
I hope that's not the piece of fin you broke off. That'll cost you $100 or more. Please be careful. Looks like you should have that running in 2-3 weeks.

Dave
69S
 
It is :(

I think if anything would have touched the piece it would have came off though. I tried to pick the piece up after it fell off and it just crumbled. It's good to know that's repairable at least.
 
I'm in the process of getting the head off now. I think I got everything off to remove the head but it still wont budge. I'm going off the shop manual and some of the terms they use I'm not familiar with. Has any one posted some pictures of them taking a head off or maybe another manual to read over?
 
ncjasen said:
I'm in the process of getting the head off now. I think I got everything off to remove the head but it still wont budge. I'm going off the shop manual and some of the terms they use I'm not familiar with. Has any one posted some pictures of them taking a head off or maybe another manual to read over?
Click to expand...

Their are 11 fastener in all on the head. 7 from above and 4 from below.
 
10 bolts and nuts on studs are all the factory fastened down head with so its the gasket surface stuck like glue. Risk to break fins using them for much prying.
Heat the snot out it till smoking hot then bang around on it with wood block protector &/or drive knife edges, chisels or razors into seam, maybe with help of puller wire affixed to head steady bolt on top. If engine turns ok then might also try filling jug with thick oil, close with plugs then stomp on kicker or jerk rear wheel in hi gear. Repeated attacks this way may be required over some days or more to win.
 
ncjasen said:
I'm going off the shop manual and some of the terms they use I'm not familiar with.
Click to expand...

Which terms don't you understand?
 
Where to start; clutch or engine?


Well I didn't get this guy out yet, I'm guessing it has to come out before the head will. I tried to get a wrench in there but it would not fit. Suggestions?

In regards to the terms I don't understand; I'm not sure what the Rocker feed pipe banjo unions or what the three 7/32 in A.F socket headed screws are.
 
ncjasen said:
Well I didn't get this guy out yet, I'm guessing it has to come out before the head will. I tried to get a wrench in there but it would not fit.
Click to expand...

Yes that nut must be removed, and you will probably need to grind a spanner/wrench down to get to it. The hexagon is 1/4 Whitworth (.525" A/F) and it is 26 tpi Cycle thread-so mark it, keep it separate from the other nuts or screw it back on the rear stud once the head has been removed.



ncjasen said:
In regards to the terms I don't understand; I'm not sure what the Rocker feed pipe banjo unions
Click to expand...


Banjo unions are the fittings on the oil pipe which bolt to each side of the head.



ncjasen said:
or what the three 7/32 in A.F socket headed screws are.
Click to expand...

The manual info says to: "Remove the three 7/32 in. A.F socket headed screws securing the head steady to the cylinder head" so "socket headed screws" you may know better as cap head or Allen screws, but the information seems reasonably self explanatory as meaning the three (5/16 BSF) fasteners which fix the steady to the head and no doubt, you will already have removed them?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top