Where to start; clutch or engine?

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ncjasen

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First off I would like to say hey to everyone! I'm working on a friends 74 850 Commando to help him out and to learn more my self. I some experience working on Honda CXs and CBs so I'm not tottaly new to maintenance and repair side of things. Anyway on to my first question:

When I put the bike in neutral and don't hold down the clutch I can't press down on the kick-start at all. If I hold down the clutch I can press down on the kick-start but there is zero compression. My guess is that there is a valve that is stuck open. Then there is a problem with the clutch possibly?

Thanks for any help and looking forward to being on the forums!
 
There is nothing wrong. The clutch must be engaged in order to kickstart the bike. If the kickstart doesn't move when you try to kickstart it, then put all your weight on the kickstarter and then give it a full blooded boot, not a jab. To kick it like a dirt bike will result in a kickback and a nasty surprise. You are talking a whole different ballgame to what you are used to.
 
Sounds to me like the engine is stuck/seized. When you pull in the clutch and kick the kickstarter, you're just spinning minor bits in the gearbox. If it won't turn over with the clutch not pulled in, you need to investigate further. Probably pulling the primary cover off to see what the condition of the primary drive is would be a good start. You could then put a socket on the crankshaft nut and see for sure if the engine is frozen.
 
Remove the spark plugs and try kicking it again (with ignition switched off).

If it feels much easier that way, then there's probably nothing wrong, and as Fullauto suggested, what you are feeling could simply be the engine compression? If it feels the same as before then there must be a problem with the primary drive or engine.
 
Just found this out, I can only change gears from neutral to 1st and back to neutral.

I'm a little confused between Fullauto and cyclegeezers responses. Should I be able to kick start with out the clutch engaged or does it have to be engaged to turn over?
 
ncjasen said:
Just found this out, I can only change gears from neutral to 1st and back to neutral.
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That isn't unusual when the engine is not running. Turn the rear wheel or roll the motorcycle along a little as you try to engage the gears, and remember the gear selection is lever UP for first, and DOWN for 2nd-3rd-4th.

ncjasen said:
I'm a little confused between Fullauto and cyclegeezers responses. Should I be able to kick start with out the clutch engaged or does it have to be engaged to turn over?
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Yes the clutch has to be engaged (lever released) to kickstart, as the kickstart drives through the clutch to the engine.
 
I tried to move the bike some and change gears and it worked fine, no worries there!

So yeah, the kick start will not budge at all. If the engine has seized would I still be able to push it while in gear?
 
ncjasen said:
So yeah, the kick start will not budge at all. If the engine has seized would I still be able to push it while in gear?
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No, not unless you pull the clutch lever in, so it looks as if the engine has locked up.
 
Hi there.
Try taking spark plugs out and putting in 2 or 3 gear and try rocking forwards and backwards.
 
ncjasen said:
I can push it while in gear.
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Unless the clutch is slipping, then I can't offer any explanation why you are able to push it (at least, not more than a few inches) in gear, with the engine apparently locked solid and with the clutch engaged.

Was your friend having problems with the bike, or in other words has it been running, or was it running recently? Or has it been left unused for a long while?
 
You need to pull the primary cover off. While in neutral, put a socket to the rotor nut and see if the crank will rotate. I doesn't which direction, but clockwise will keep the nut from loosening. This will help you isolate the issue. Report back when finished.
 
I just went out to push it around again. I think I was actually in neutral when I thought I was in 1st. I put it in second and can't push it at all.

The bike has been sitting in a crawl space for about 20 years. Not surprising at all that it's sized up. Haha, I guess I know what the problem is now and can go from there.
 
ncjasen said:
The bike has been sitting in a crawl space for about 20 years. Not surprising at all that it's sized up. Haha, I guess I know what the problem is now and can go from there.
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The pistons most likey have stuck in the bores then?
 
If you have a small diameter pen light or LED light, look into the spark plug holes to see if there's rust. A penetrating oil such as PB Blaster or Kroil, with time might loosen it up but the leverage is reversed, the kick start can't really apply much force as against iron rings rusted to an iron bore.
 
Rock the bike and find forth gear. Pull in the clutch and bump it to free. Have the plugs pulled and some penatrant of some sort squirted in the combustion chamber.
 
The bike has been sitting for twenty years, an engine seizure was the probable reason it got sat down in the first place. It makes no sense to try and run an unknown quantity like this. Take a day and dismantle the bike. You will need a Norton clutch puller a manual and some patience. There is plenty of experience on this forum to draw from. Get ready to throw 100 dollar bills at it. Bear down and enjoy the experience we have all done it. Keep us informed we are all interested and can at least provide moral support. :)
 
Did you try what was sugested earlier - removing spark plugs, tranny in neutral, clutch lever released, and see if you can push the kickstarter through a revolution? Just standing on it should easily push it through with the plugs removed unless the engine is siezed. If it is siezed, pour a few tablespoons of Marvel Mystery oil in each cyl and try it again tomorrow. If the pistons are siezed they need to be released before you can go any further with disassembly anyway. The MMO will usually do that without much trouble.
 
I got one spark plug off, the other one will not move. I have some liquid wrench that I sprayed on it and will go back to it tomorrow to see if I can get it. I did try to kick it over with the one spark plug out and it didn't make a difference. I couldn't move the rotor nut either. I have no problem with tearing the bike down and learning everything I can, I look forward to it! I'll take the tips for getting the pistons unstuck and will keep everyone updated.
 
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