When to tickle (2005)

When to tickle is another one of those Black Magic things about Amals.
Do it right, starts right up, do it wrong, you have drippy mess and / or fouled plugs.

Obviously, tickle when cold. I do it for a 3 count, just to the point of hearing the fuel top out in the tickler. If any drips, I wipe it off. Done correctly, it will be very minimal, if any.

The fun starts when one stops for awhile. More than 30 minutes, less than 2 hours.

Is the engine cold, do we tickle or not. Try to start without tickle, nothing, now tickle, flood the engine. You know the drill. And the more people watching, the more likely this will happen and the more kicks it will take.

The problem is, when we stop we turn the fuel off, do our thing and come back. The fuel starts evaporating from the heat of the engine. If it is a short period, no issues, long enough to empty the float bowl and it is an issue.
We turn the fuel on, and try to start the engine on an un full float bowl.
As we try to start, it is slowly filling up, then we try to tickle and flood it.
I have been saying we, maybe I should say I, because I have experienced this several times.

One solution is to leave the fuel on if it is a short stop. This will keep the carbs full. I realize this goes against the grain, but it has worked for me.

So the gas evaporates? Interesting, i was wondering where it went. Shouldn't it refill fairly quickly once you turn the taps back on though?

The issue of when tickling becomes necessary again is a bit of a puzzle isn't it. How much does the engine have to cool down before tickling is needed? As you say, guessing wrong gives a flooded engine and frustration. And I suppose NOT impressing the admiring crowd (not an issue around here, people are too self-absorbed to even notice).

Debby

I'm not sure the issue here is actually evaporation. It doesn't re-start because the engine is cool enough to require a slightly richer mixture. Closing the enrichener (choke) should do it. Tickling it dumps raw fuel down the carb throat which either fouls (floods) the plugs or if your lucky enrichens the mixture enough for starting.

It does require more tickling at cold start due to fuel evaporation. It needs to fill the float bowl first, then flood a little fuel in the carb throat.

I have been experimenting with different starting procedures. To tickle or not to tickle that is the question. I have always tickled when cold but lately I have discovered the choke works just a well to get a good cold start and I do not leave a dribble of gas on the garage floor. I have also noticed that hot restarts are almost impossible until I used the choke and then it banged right off. Tickling when hot had zero effect. I am leaning more and more toward the choke and away from the tickle button which I find weird. I grew up on British bikes and the tickle was the thing. Is the petrol that different today?

Big_Jim59 said:

I have been experimenting with different starting procedures. To tickle or not to tickle that is the question. I have always tickled when cold but lately I have discovered the choke works just a well to get a good cold start and I do not leave a dribble of gas on the garage floor. I have also noticed that hot restarts are almost impossible until I used the choke and then it banged right off. Tickling when hot had zero effect. I am leaning more and more toward the choke and away from the tickle button which I find weird. I grew up on British bikes and the tickle was the thing. Is the petrol that different today?

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Strangely some bikes seem to like the choke others don't
I'd always thought the choke was there to keep the engine running when it's really cold
Not so much for starting as that was the job of the tickler ?

Still reckon there's a world (or half, at least) of difference between UK frosty morning cold starts and California 'shall I wear shorts and shades today?' ones
Horses and courses, yet again.....

Do you keep the throttle closed when starting? Warm garage or out in the garden overnight?

EstuaryBoy said:

Still reckon there's a world (or half, at least) of difference between UK frosty morning cold starts and California 'shall I wear shorts and shades today?' ones
Horses and courses, yet again.....

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You mean they don't have frozen solid seats in other parts of the world?

baz said:

You mean they don't have frozen solid seats in other parts of the world?

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It's even worse in the winter!!

Open the fuel tap, give it 10 seconds to fill the bowls then try to start it, if no joy then tickle the carbs.

Onder said:

Do you keep the throttle closed when starting? Warm garage or out in the garden overnight?

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Good Question this .... With Japanese its a definately do not touch the throttle ...but they have of course cold enrichment

EstuaryBoy said:

Still reckon there's a world (or half, at least) of difference between UK frosty morning cold starts and California 'shall I wear shorts and shades today?' ones
Horses and courses, yet again.....

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I worked for a company who's principle partners were both born and raised in the San Diego area of California. It could be freezing outside and these two would show up at the office with no jacket. They always said they just forgot. It was not something they ever did or thought about.

I am just as surprised as anyone over the use of the choke on a hot start. We never used the choke to the point of making them inoperable to avoid anyone else using them.

Onder said:

Do you keep the throttle closed when starting? Warm garage or out in the garden overnight?

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According to the Amal guide card that came with new premiers, the throttle should be held open slightly for starting.
My bike definately responds well to that.

Recently a made up new plug cables with non resistor caps. Running non resistor plugs with these seems to be giving me very consistent first kick starts, 9 times out of ten, hot or cold engine. Previous with 10k resistance per side, starting was more problematic. This is with Wassel EI (similar for analog Boyer).

I think Pazon wants 5k plug cap.

Onder said:

I think Pazon wants 5k plug cap.

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Not Pazon Sure-Fire, only "recommended" as Sure-Fire isn't a digital system.
"We recommend fitting NGK 5K resistor (suppressor) type plug caps (or similar good quality make), but you can also fit non-resistor caps."

Well why would they recommend if it wasn't needed or helpful?

Onder said:

Well why would they recommend if it wasn't needed or helpful?

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Because suppressor caps (or plugs) reduce TV and radio interference but an analog(ue) ignition doesn't normally require suppressed caps or plugs in order to function correctly whereas a digital system generally does.

My my. Remember TV and radio? As old as our bikes...

Same for Boyer Bransden. Digital - Yes, analogue - "Not required", only "recommended".

Why Do I Need To Use Suppressed Plug Caps?​

"MKIII and MKIV do not require suppressed plug caps for operation although we recommend using supressed 5000 ohm plug caps. Micro Digital and Micro Power units must be fitted with supressed plug caps. Plug caps fitted with suppression resistors are usually fitted to prevent radio interference. Radio interference (noise) can cause more complex electronic circuits like radios and computers to malfunction.

Our Micro Digital and Micro Power ignition systems contain a small computer operating at high speed that can be adversely affected by radio frequency interference. Symptoms can range from refusal to start to intermittent engine stalling symptoms. Use of non-suppressed plug caps has been known to cause permanent damage to the ignition unit."

Wassell Vape (analogue) "recommend":
"HT LEADS & SPARK PLUG CAPS
We recommend fitting a good quality 5k resistor type plug cap
Non-resistor caps can also be fitted."

How do you know what you're currently running?