Various newby issues

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geoff71

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So I fixed the fuel tank not venting - but now I have moved on to become further perplexed...

After a test run the other night I noticed that the right header pipe was glowing red. After studying on here I regapped the points (they were on the narrow side), checked valve clearances (adjusted the offending side) and strobe timed the ignition. The right was dead nuts 28 fully advanced, the left was more like 40 :shock: . Adjusted the left to 28(ish) and took it back out last night. Other than being confused once more by the shifting (hey I am a Triumph guy, old habits are hard to break) - it seemed to run excellently... well the dead battery was new (rectifier is what I am leaning towards), and the tachometer is now commiting suicide spinning to 10,000 rpm; but I digress. I discovered when I came home and was letting the gas run out of the carbs at idle - both pipes now glow at idle - which is fast once the bike is warmed up. I have a MAC 2-1 exhuast, and the glow doesn't go past the bend down, and its not cherry.

Something to be concerned about?.?.?.?.?
 
Glowing red?
Click to expand...

Agree with that sentiment......and yes I'd be concerned about the temperatures you're creating myself. What color are your pipes once they cool off?

Only thing I can think to ask is how lean a fuel setting are you at? And are you using any additives or putting something in your gas?
 
Red pipes at moderate speeds are most likely caused by retarded timing. When the spark goes off too late the gas continues to burn inside the exhaust pipe. At full throttle, at night on a well tuned bike you might notice your pipes dull red just out from the head. 1400 degree hot air will do that. Assuming, you has the guts to look down at full throttle to see this at night. It’s easier and safer to see on a dyno with the lights out. A visible red in day light is more like 1500-1800 degrees so more likely un-burnt mixture. If you do some deep reading of old posts you will find reference to the fact that your timing scale inside the primary cover and the line on your rotor could be ling to you by 3 degrees and you may need to use a degree wheel to check it out. Than re-time the bike using a corrected number.
 
norbsa48503 said:
Red pipes at moderate speeds are most likely caused by retarded timing. When the spark goes off too late the gas continues to burn inside the exhaust pipe. At full throttle, at night on a well tuned bike you might notice your pipes dull red just out from the head. 1400 degree hot air will do that. Assuming, you has the guts to look down at full throttle to see this at night. It’s easier and safer to see on a dyno with the lights out. A visible red in day light is more like 1500-1800 degrees so more likely un-burnt mixture. If you do some deep reading of old posts you will find reference to the fact that your timing scale inside the primary cover and the line on your rotor could be ling to you by 3 degrees and you may need to use a degree wheel to check it out. Than re-time the bike using a corrected number.
Click to expand...

What about a bad advance since he's using (gasp) points?
 
slupdawg said:
Glowing red?
Click to expand...

Agree with that sentiment......and yes I'd be concerned about the temperatures you're creating myself. What color are your pipes once they cool off?

Only thing I can think to ask is how lean a fuel setting are you at? And are you using any additives or putting something in your gas?
Click to expand...


More like a dull pink at a high idle. The advance worked when I set the timing - and the pipes are not glowing when I am going at a good clip at night. The pipes have been blued / have an anodized look to them. Noadditives - just crap NY 93 octane for gas...

When you run unbaffled pipes (not that I am) does the mixture lean out?
 
When you run unbaffled pipes (not that I am) does the mixture lean out?
Click to expand...

Well, if it is, it should be evidenced by the way the plugs appear. It sounds to me like norbsa has a better idea, though. You might want to consider checking your timing again using the degree wheel and eliminating that as a possible suspect. Guess I don't have the guts to look down at full throttle at night to see what my pipes are doing!
 
geoff71 said:
slupdawg said:
Glowing red?
Click to expand...

Agree with that sentiment......and yes I'd be concerned about the temperatures you're creating myself. What color are your pipes once they cool off?

Only thing I can think to ask is how lean a fuel setting are you at? And are you using any additives or putting something in your gas?
Click to expand...


More like a dull pink at a high idle. The advance worked when I set the timing - and the pipes are not glowing when I am going at a good clip at night.
Click to expand...

How did the advance work when you set the timing? Everything in the advance mechanism has to work perfectly. Springs the correct tension, everything moves smoothly, etc. So many things that can go wrong there.
 
"How did the advance work when you set the timing? Everything in the advance mechanism has to work perfectly. Springs the correct tension, everything moves smoothly, etc. So many things that can go wrong there"

The timing mark moved from being buried to the left of the timing indicator to the 28 or 40 degree mark to start. It did not seem to act goofy, not too much error in maintaining the advance (28 +/- 1 as the throttle blipped about). Plug condition is sooty - although I am not doing a chop test - and I am using Champion N11Y's from the PO instead of the N7Y as reccommended.
I will get a degree wheel per Norbsa's advice and double check what is going on.
I tried to look for airleaks but it has a set of Mikunis, which after spending my entire riding career with Amals I am quite "hesitant" to stare at them wrong, let alone do much more than ensure the rubber intake hoses are clamped tightly. I am going to try to mess with the idle in a few minutes though :? .

Thanks so far!
 
geoff71 said:
"How did the advance work when you set the timing? Everything in the advance mechanism has to work perfectly. Springs the correct tension, everything moves smoothly, etc. So many things that can go wrong there"

The timing mark moved from being buried to the left of the timing indicator to the 28 or 40 degree mark to start. It did not seem to act goofy, not too much error in maintaining the advance (28 +/- 1 as the throttle blipped about). Plug condition is sooty - although I am not doing a chop test - and I am using Champion N11Y's from the PO instead of the N7Y as reccommended.
I will get a degree wheel per Norbsa's advice and double check what is going on.
I tried to look for airleaks but it has a set of Mikunis, which after spending my entire riding career with Amals I am quite "hesitant" to stare at them wrong, let alone do much more than ensure the rubber intake hoses are clamped tightly. I am going to try to mess with the idle in a few minutes though :? .

Thanks so far!
Click to expand...

Why the plug choice N11Y ? (Hotter)...
 
What baffles me is how one cylinder differs from the other(" The right was dead nuts 28 fully advanced, the left was more like 40 ."). Unless something is really twinked on your points backing plate, this anomaly should not exsist. You better go through that point system thoroughly(springs, wear lobes, counter weights and bushings, ets). Those numbers are goofy. Also, N11Y is very cold for Norton. I would change them out before further diagnosis.
 
geoff71 said:
"How did the advance work when you set the timing? Everything in the advance mechanism has to work perfectly. Springs the correct tension, everything moves smoothly, etc. So many things that can go wrong there"

The timing mark moved from being buried to the left of the timing indicator to the 28 or 40 degree mark to start. It did not seem to act goofy, not too much error in maintaining the advance (28 +/- 1 as the throttle blipped about). Plug condition is sooty - although I am not doing a chop test - and I am using Champion N11Y's from the PO instead of the N7Y as reccommended.
I will get a degree wheel per Norbsa's advice and double check what is going on.
I tried to look for airleaks but it has a set of Mikunis, which after spending my entire riding career with Amals I am quite "hesitant" to stare at them wrong, let alone do much more than ensure the rubber intake hoses are clamped tightly. I am going to try to mess with the idle in a few minutes though :? .

Thanks so far!
Click to expand...

Why the plug choice N11Y ? OOPs sent this twice sorry
 
pvisseriii said:
What baffles me is how one cylinder differs from the other(" The right was dead nuts 28 fully advanced, the left was more like 40 ."). Unless something is really twinked on your points backing plate, this anomaly should not exsist. You better go through that point system thoroughly(springs, wear lobes, counter weights and bushings, ets). Those numbers are goofy. Also, N11Y is very cold for Norton. I would change them out before further diagnosis.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you mean cold Champion Plugs that have a higher number indicate a hotter plug.
 
pvisseriii said:
What baffles me is how one cylinder differs from the other(" The right was dead nuts 28 fully advanced, the left was more like 40 ."). Unless something is really twinked on your points backing plate, this anomaly should not exsist. You better go through that point system thoroughly(springs, wear lobes, counter weights and bushings, ets). Those numbers are goofy. Also, N11Y is very cold for Norton. I would change them out before further diagnosis.
Click to expand...
With the dual-points stock steup, it is quite possible to (mis)adjust one set 12 degrees different from the other, so the 28-40 difference isn't impossible. Also, strobed timing can differ cylinder-to-cylinder as the revs rise and the advancer kicks in. A Boyer or other electronic ignition has much better timing and advance control than points-and-coil.
 
Danno said:
pvisseriii said:
What baffles me is how one cylinder differs from the other(" The right was dead nuts 28 fully advanced, the left was more like 40 ."). Unless something is really twinked on your points backing plate, this anomaly should not exsist. You better go through that point system thoroughly(springs, wear lobes, counter weights and bushings, ets). Those numbers are goofy. Also, N11Y is very cold for Norton. I would change them out before further diagnosis.
Click to expand...
With the dual-points stock steup, it is quite possible to (mis)adjust one set 12 degrees different from the other, so the 28-40 difference isn't impossible. Also, strobed timing can differ cylinder-to-cylinder as the revs rise and the advancer kicks in. A Boyer or other electronic ignition has much better timing and advance control than points-and-coil.
Click to expand...

I am off to the store for the correct pugs (if I can get 'em today) - and I'll keep my fingers crossed that ends up being the problem. The points can be individually adjusted & its not too bad to do. I am / was a strict proponent of EI (its what I've had in my Bonnie since the early '90's because playing with points seemed like voodoo) - who knows, I mught stick with the points for the Norton.
 
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