Kickstart Issues

marshg246 said:
Yes, please fix the kick starter first. With it not working right at some point it is likely to hurt you - broken foot/ankle/leg, launch over handlebars, etc.

Getting the engine just past compression and kicking means that the engine will spin almost one revolution before the next compression and normally will have the momentum to make it past that compression when it fires. If you're small or weak, that's the only way to go. If you're big and strong, then you can just kick and accomplish the same thing but there's a bigger chance of kickback so an ignition system with anti-kickback is a good idea.

Even with all my bionic parts and being 75, I simply kick stock bikes - no thought of engine position. But then, I am well more than two times heavier than @YING and my right leg is still strong.
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How do I get the engine to just past compression or the ideal starting point before kicking?
 
TDC should be obvious, because the compression is at its greatest. Doesn't matter which cylinder you are on. Use the Kickstarter to gently go past top dead center. Then you have your best chance of getting up some rotational speed. Do it with the bike on the center stand, as this will allow you to throw your weight into it.
 
DaveinCanada said:
How do I get the engine to just past compression or the ideal starting point before kicking?
Click to expand...
Rotate engine with the kickstarter slowly. When you feel it get hard to turn, keep firm pressure...it will slowly bleed out pressure past the rings and then get easier to rotate...stop right at this point...one of the pistons is just past TDC. Now reset the kicker to near its top position, light downward pressure to ensure it has engaged the ratchet pawl, then a big powerful kick downward with follow through past straight down position. I tend to use full body weight on the downstroke. Best to use centerstand until your are well practised...before trying with no stand deployed (never on sidestand...wrecks the frame/bends the stand too far forward).
 
Why bother boot starting it if the electric start functions, especially after getting hurt? It should fire and run after 1 or 2 revolutions either method, if not, its tune up time
 
DaveinCanada said:
On my 5th or 6th try I popped by calf muscle. Felt like someone hit it with a baseball bat. One thing to note is that the kickstart arm doesn't spring back to position. I have to pull it back up to starting position.
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I feel your pain!
Does the lever feel stiff when pulling back up?
If you pull the clutch in, the lever should rotate both up and down with no resistance beyond what the spring provides.
If it doesn't, there's an issue within the gearbox itself.
A broken spring is a possibility, a collapsed layshaft bearing is a distinct possibility, as is a bad rebuild.
 
BERT said:
Why bother boot starting it if the electric start functions, especially after getting hurt? It should fire and run after 1 or 2 revolutions either method, if not, its tune up time
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It's a 73 850 Commando so if stock no ES, I be pulling the GB covers off, not a hard job, if it's the spring it be an easy fix with a new one, and surely after 50+ years the layshaft bearing should have been changes as they normally blow around 10k miles, if it's not the spring then going further into the GB will be needed, still not a hard job opening the inner GB case but need WW sockets for the inner case nuts and that is where you find the KS pawl and the KS gear, be also wise to check what else needs replacing while in there.
 
L.A.B. said:
Where did you read that it had an electric starter?
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"For this first time in 30 years I tried kick starting it this weekend"
I assumed the person had been using electric start until this weekend. I misinterpreted the statement. Lol
 
BERT said:
Why bother boot starting it if the electric start functions, especially after getting hurt? It should fire and run after 1 or 2 revolutions either method, if not, its tune up time
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For sure. My MK3 is kick only, and lately it’s been starting when I’m bleeding compression off of TDC — no kidding. I feel like I could hand start this thing with my hand when it’s cold.
 
SteveBorland said:
When I had the original Norton kickstart lever fitted, I could stand on the kickstart with all my weight (80kg), and it would slowly move down...
That's the downside of high compression pistons though. A standard Commando will not be that hard. Use the kickstart to move the pistons just past TDC, then get the lever to about 10 o'clock and give it a serious kick. It's a balance between getting enough leverage on the kickstart and getting enough rotational speed to move the piston past TDC on the next stroke. My bike likes a little throttle and no choke, but this varies.
Oh, and try this on the center stand unless you are very good at balancing. Not the side stand though.
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My 850 Mk II is 10.1:1 static compression and is easier to kick over than it was stock.Of course the cam grind has a lot to do with that.
 
Tornado said:
Rotate engine with the kickstarter slowly. When you feel it get hard to turn, keep firm pressure...it will slowly bleed out pressure past the rings and then get easier to rotate...stop right at this point...one of the pistons is just past TDC. Now reset the kicker to near its top position, light downward pressure to ensure it has engaged the ratchet pawl, then a big powerful kick downward with follow through past straight down position. I tend to use full body weight on the downstroke. Best to use centerstand until your are well practised...before trying with no stand deployed (never on sidestand...wrecks the frame/bends the stand too far forward).
Click to expand...
Thank you for the directions. I will give it a try
 
B+Bogus said:
I feel your pain!
Does the lever feel stiff when pulling back up?
If you pull the clutch in, the lever should rotate both up and down with no resistance beyond what the spring provides.
If it doesn't, there's an issue within the gearbox itself.
A broken spring is a possibility, a collapsed layshaft bearing is a distinct possibility, as is a bad rebuild.
Click to expand...
Good news. After getting a buddy to try to kickstart it quite a few times, the lever loosened up and now springs back into place without issue and very smoothly. I guess after sitting for 30+ years, it needed some kicks to get it loose.
 
PROGRESS! Here's an update. After many, many kick attempts, the kickstart lever is now free and springs back into place with no issue. There is a very strong spark on both plugs, the compress is excellent and I've solved the fuel leak. I actually got the motor to catch and rotate with a few big puffs of smoke out of the exhaust. I'm going to check the wet sump to see if there is any oil in as a few have mentioned. At this point, I think it's a matter of finding the sweet spot between TDC, choke and a good solid kick. She wants to start and I'm almost there (but likely will have more questions. LOL).
 
DaveinCanada said:
PROGRESS! Here's an update. After many, many kick attempts, the kickstart lever is now free and springs back into place with no issue. There is a very strong spark on both plugs, the compress is excellent and I've solved the fuel leak. I actually got the motor to catch and rotate with a few big puffs of smoke out of the exhaust. I'm going to check the wet sump to see if there is any oil in as a few have mentioned. At this point, I think it's a matter of finding the sweet spot between TDC, choke and a good solid kick. She wants to start and I'm almost there (but likely will have more questions. LOL).
Click to expand...
I never use choke, just a carb tickle both sides to get fuel level high in the carbs...only on a cold starts though. Typically a first kick won't fire as it needs to draw the charge into cylinders, second is the best chance to fire. If no joy after five or so tries, maybe another tickle, maybe just one side only.
 
DaveinCanada said:
PROGRESS! Here's an update. After many, many kick attempts, the kickstart lever is now free and springs back into place with no issue. There is a very strong spark on both plugs, the compress is excellent and I've solved the fuel leak. I actually got the motor to catch and rotate with a few big puffs of smoke out of the exhaust. I'm going to check the wet sump to see if there is any oil in as a few have mentioned. At this point, I think it's a matter of finding the sweet spot between TDC, choke and a good solid kick. She wants to start and I'm almost there (but likely will have more questions. LOL).
Click to expand...
Make sure the choke is off and never turn it on again. Off is the cable pulled tight. Do not twist the throttle when kicking - defeats the point of tickling. If you're overdone the tickling and flooded the engine then open the throttle 1/2 and kick, but normally, no throttle.
 
marshg246 said:
Make sure the choke is off and never turn it on again. Off is the cable pulled tight. Do not twist the throttle when kicking - defeats the point of tickling. If you're overdone the tickling and flooded the engine then open the throttle 1/2 and kick, but normally, no throttle.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice
 
Tornado said:
I never use choke, just a carb tickle both sides to get fuel level high in the carbs...only on a cold starts though. Typically a first kick won't fire as it needs to draw the charge into cylinders, second is the best chance to fire. If no joy after five or so tries, maybe another tickle, maybe just one side only.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the tips
 


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