To Podtronics or not?

Evening all,
The story so far... In my exploration of my new to me Mk3, I've figured out with your help that it's fitted fitted with a sprag-killing Mk1 Boyer ignition. Unless someone tells me it's a silly idea, I'm probably going to stick a Pazon unit on it, which will hopefully put an end to its appetite for sprag clutches.

While I'm into it, I'm wondering about the regulator/rectifier system. It appears to be standard, with a pair of zeners & an old-school bridge rectifier. It would all appear to work, but I'm wondering whether I should pop a Podtronics (or Boyer Power Box) on while I'm about it.

What is the view of the forum hive mind on this one? Original all the way, or upgrade? Does a Podtronics unit actually work better than original? I'm after a reliable push-button starter at the end of this, rather than a museum piece.

Thanks as ever for your thoughts,

Jon.

I've got a Pazon Altair and am quite happy with it.

The MK3 charging system is marginal at best if you want to ride with your headlight on in traffic. A regulator like the power box can only help. I installed a 3 phase alternator and dumped the rectifier/zeners. Combined with a Dyno Dave starter it starts like a modern bike.

Pazon's are good units, but so is the MK1 Boyer. Had one on a MKIII for many years with no issues, and I use the original starter at all times.
I think you need to hold the timing to 28 degrees. I know they say to use 31 or so, but the factory timing works swell and I've never had a problem with it kicking back. Still the original sprag at 54K miles. Just my 2 cents...

milfordite said:

Pazon's are good units, but so is the MK1 Boyer. Had one on a MKIII for many years with no issues, and I use the original starter at all times.
I think you need to hold the timing to 28 degrees. I know they say to use 31 or so, but the factory timing works swell and I've never had a problem with it kicking back. Still the original sprag at 54K miles. Just my 2 cents...

Click to expand...

This is interesting... what have you done different than others? Never tried starting with a low battery? (I mean STOPPED trying as soon as you heard it crank slowly) Do tell....

milfordite said:

Pazon's are good units, but so is the MK1 Boyer. Had one on a MKIII for many years with no issues, and I use the original starter at all times.
I think you need to hold the timing to 28 degrees. I know they say to use 31 or so, but the factory timing works swell and I've never had a problem with it kicking back. Still the original sprag at 54K miles. Just my 2 cents...

Click to expand...

Wow, that's quite a record! The fact that my bike has been through 3 sprags in recent times (with a previous owner) makes me think that something's amiss. I hope to give the starter the best chance, and from what I've read the Pazon unit copes much better with low voltage. Still, I haven't decided yet, I reckon it's well worth me checking the timing before getting my wallet out.

Cheers, Jon

I don't have a Mark III, but my bike never kicks back since I installed a TriSpark....I originally had a Boyer and chances were pretty good that it would kick back harder than I kicked...When I first got this 1974 Commando, I wsa actually ready for the kickback..Now starting my bike is nice and easy...Just my experience...

And yes, I also installed a three phase Lucas charging system with a Podtronics regulator...Very happy with this upgrade also....

Boxerfan said:

Does a Podtronics unit actually work better than original? I'm after a reliable push-button starter at the end of this, rather than a museum piece.

Click to expand...

'Running a Podtronics with the stock single-phase alternator. I left the stock zener bolted to the z-plate so as to not leave an odd hole exposed. Granted, I'm running a non-electric start model ('74), but the Podtronics does help maintain battery voltage over the stock zener/rectifier system. It can even be plugged into the stock system in place of the rectifier with the right crimp connectors.



I was going to go with a three-phase, but, after converting to an LED headlight bulb(permanent-solution-dim-commando-headlight-t20361-45.html), all of my low-charge problems are gone (jinx!)

Nathan

I had a Boya for over 30 years and it never kicked back, if the timing is right it won't kick back and if it does just retard it a little, I don't use a timing light, I just advance it till it kicks back then move the pick up till no kick back, has worked for me for 39 years, but the best thing I did was put a Joe Hunt on, who needs a battery :roll:

Ashley

I do!

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Glen have you been abducted by aliens? Or did they just want a go on your bike?

Amazing how quickly these threads get off track.

I dumped Lucas for Power Arc and Podtronics.
VERY happy with both.
Podtronics is less complicated, and thus more reliable than the Boyer Box.
Another easy upgrade is to put in a good AGM battery.
When you have more time and patience, go thru and replace all old wiring and connectors.

tomspro said:

Amazing how quickly these threads get off track.

I dumped Lucas for Power Arc and Podtronics.
VERY happy with both.
Podtronics is less complicated, and thus more reliable than the Boyer Box.
Another easy upgrade is to put in a good AGM battery.
When you have more time and patience, go thru and replace all old wiring and connectors.

Click to expand...

Ditto!

I didn't replace all the wiring but did install a new main fuse, an ATO type that gets rid of the glass tube, new wire from there to switch, new from switch to ignition box bypassing the kill switch. There are some who say you need the kill switch by I never have (jinx), so I went around it. All the original wires are still in the harness so I can always go back. The 3 phase and VR wiring is all new as well so all the important stuff is new.

When I bought the bike in a box 25 years ago the sprag was bad and it had point ignition. I'm always amazed when I hear of one that's lasted for years.

To all concerned about this issue:
1. Over the years I made the opportunity to test dozens of MKIIl Boyer black box ignitions.
2. The finding was that the actual advance curve was very nonconsistant...I think this is the primary reason for Boyers instructions to time @5000 rpm because you don't drive down the highway at idle...do you!
3. Therefore gross timing inaccuracies at low speeds and starting were generally unimportant for kicker bikes and I actually agree...
However:
4. By having a E-start with a high current load ... on a smallish battery...with an underpowered charging system, you are very likely to have spark scatter during start mode and low voltage.
5. If you are "LUCKY" enough to have a precious combination of components, then good on you!!!
6. If you believe in LUCK rather than science then follow the MKIII endorsement of the "lucky" and follow their endorsement. I for one DO NOT believe in that kind of luck to actually receive a old boyer that will give similar results. The scientific tests do not bear it out.

The addition of a podtronics over the original diodes and zeners will have virtually no effect. The 3 phase 180/210 watt higher powerr system is my number one recommendation...a bigger battery is a distant second.
This is regardless of original starter, 4 brush or my starter....