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T140 progress and thoughts...

Discussion in 'Triumph (Classic)' started by Fast Eddie, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    I can’t take the credit, I bought this restored, although I ended up doing a lot of finishing off and ‘tweaking’. I think the satin black is a two pack paint, pretty sure it’s not powder.
     
  2. nortriubuell

    nortriubuell VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Yours really is one of THE nicest T140s I've seen pics of! Would "almost" ... be willing to trade MY own Norton for it, me likes it "so much all the time every day" as my 4 year old Grandson would say :)
     
    Fast Eddie likes this.
  3. baz

    baz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Nice looking bike Eddie
    I used to love triumph twins especially the t140 but all the ones I have owned vibrated badly
    My t140e was bad throughout the rev range I had a tr7 that vibrated badly and one of my mates had a t140d that was smooth until you got to 70mph
    One mate had a t140v that was pretty smooth , well it didn't blow bulbs , break exhaust mounts and shake bolts off as much
    My bonnie used to fracture tax disc holders, rotate Speedo and revcounter in their pods
    It would regularly blow the headlight bulb and tail light
    Also used to shake the 3 pin connector off the back of the headlight bulb
    The other issue was the clutch slipping and dragging, although no doubt there are better components out there?
    Recently my old t140e turned up at the ace cafe a mate of mine recognised the reg number
    The same bloke had it that bought it from me 20 years ago, apparently he never touches it apart from maintenance!!
    It was never that reliable when I owned it
    Having said all that I would like another one but I'd spend a bit of time with crank balance
     
  4. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    There’s good uns and bad uns for sure Baz. I can only assume mine was balanced by someone at some stage.

    And of course, you were younger then, as was I, and we were probably a little less mechanically sympathetic than we are now (huge understatement) !
     
  5. Onder

    Onder

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    What then should the balance factor be?
     
  6. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Hope you’re not asking me? You’d be better off asking someone who knows what they’re talking about...

    I really haven’t a clue any more. There are so many different opinions and also so many different opinions about different balance factors for different applications, what frame it’s in, how it will be ridden, etc.

    Triumph said 74% for the T140.

    If I were having a crank balanced I’d use the 74% as a starting point and discuss with the balancer and seek their guidance.

    If I was rebuilding an engine that I thought was smooth before the strip-down, I would not get it balanced. They may make it worse...
     
  7. Onder

    Onder

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Well you are not alone in giving up on the Magic Number. I realize there are a lot of factors involved. I have two identical motors balanced the same
    in two different frames and there is a noticeable difference. That being said I bet even the handlebars you are using introduce hands on differences
    (sorry bad pun). Im sure that balance can be achieved in a fairly narrow rpm and load band. You have to know where you want the sweet (or at least
    sweeter) to be.
     
  8. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Its a funny ole thing this vibration malarkey.

    I think I've only ever had one Triumph that really vibrated badly, and that was a Triton that had the crank balanced by Owen Greenwood!

    I did have vibration issues on others, but that's cos I thrashed them mercilessly!

    Standard twins I've had have been either OK, or actually very good, if ridden within their limits. The smoothest standard Triumph twin I ever had was a TSS, and that got thrashed mercilessly too.

    When I got into tuning them up etc I started using Basset Down balancing and they made even pretty hot rodded engines vibrate no where near as badly as they should have. But Reggie (on this forum) sent his T140 crank them recently and they made a right pigs ear of it!

    I have 2 Triumph twins currently and whilst they would not be considered silky smooth, the vibration really is not that bad. I do not know if either has ever been balanced or not (one is a 1968 'light crank' T120, t'other is a 1980 T140).

    I now believe that if Triumph twins are balanced to factory spec, and ridden like 'classic bikes' there really isn't much to worry about. I reckon that vibes were only an issue when they were owned by teenage tearaways racing around everywhere and / or not balanced reasonably in the first place.
     
  9. Onder

    Onder

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Well how about using the amount of time you can ride before your hands get too uncomfortable to continue? I had a 73 T140v that ran great but
    an hour on the dual carriage and you needed the WC almost as badly as a new set of hands.
     
    Fast Eddie likes this.
  10. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Praps that’s why they fitted small petrol tanks !
     
  11. Triton Thrasher

    Triton Thrasher

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    My Triton vibrates quite a lot.

    It broke light bulbs, so the lights are now rubber mounted and there’s no more problem.

    It cracked the stainless silencers, so now they’re welded to the pipes and rubber mounted.

    The alloy tank ended up with ten separate cracks. It’s under the bench now and the bike has a steel tank.

    The downtubes cracked and were welded. The head steady tab broke off and was welded back on.

    I try to address the matters that arise and prevent the same problem occurring more than once.
     
  12. Reggie

    Reggie

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    It is true that my T140 that Fast Eddie is referring to above, does vibrate very badly above 5,000 rpm and it seems to come up through the seat and is very unpleasant. Before sending the crank to Basset Down, I was advised by a well known longstanding Triumph dealership in the South East of England not to send my crankshaft to Basset Down as a crank that they had recently sent had apparently come back looking like a piece of Swiss cheese and vibrating where it shouldn't have. Being a man who makes his own decisions (not very bright) I sent my crank to Basset Down and it came back looking like a piece of Swiss cheese, and it vibrated badly.

    To be fair, I had never ridden the T140 prior to having the crank balanced as it was a non-runner, so I can't actually confirm that it was definitively made worse than before it was balanced, and because I couldn't be arsed to strip the engine down again, I never contacted Basset Down about my disappointment, and so didn't give them an opportunity to "improve things," although there wasn't much flywheel left to drill.

    Also, I had previously sent Bassett Down a crankshaft from a Moto Guzzi and that engine is really smooth. If I recall, I was told by the Triumph dealer at the time that I referred to above, that the company had recently changed hands.

    But I also would be interested to hear of anybody in the UK who has had a good job balancing the crankshaft from a T140, as I would consider another look at this issue.
     
    nortriubuell likes this.
  13. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Reggie, your T140 is a Harris, and should have had the TSS style crank which were more uniformly machined and, generally speaking, better balanced. I had a Harris Bonnie and it only really vibrated badly at, or close to, the 7,000rpm red line (at which it spent way too much time). So, sadly, I would guess that your vibes are Bassets fault.
     
  14. Reggie

    Reggie

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Before.
    [​IMG]

    After
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Reggie

    Reggie

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    I suspect so too.
     
  16. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    That’s an awful lot of metal removed !
     
  17. Onder

    Onder

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    I am stunned! What factor did you ask for?
     
  18. Reggie

    Reggie

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    These holes are at about 180* ish from the other set of holes and if I recall, on the opposite edge of the flywheel.
    This suggests to me that the crank was deemed to be rocking across its axis as well, but I'm just guessing.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  19. Reggie

    Reggie

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    I think I asked for 75% and it was apparently balanced at 80%.
    Here's the paperwork that I was sent.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Reggie

    Reggie

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Sorry Nigel, I seem to have de-railed your thread.
    Hopefully there won't be much to add to this bit.
     

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