Ready to Race Finally

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acotrel said:
I think boxer BMWs are lovely bikes, and are probably the best road bikes if you don't need the adrenalin rush. However I think getting one to race speed would never be easy. There was video around of about 14 late 4 valve models, all buzzing around a race circuit together in a special class for them. I suggest there are minimal degrees of freedom with that design. With the commando, the separate gearbox and the motor type give a lot more opportunity for modification.
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I guess we've hijacked this thread enough, but I'll simply say: I had to take the crank out of mine a while ago... and I didn't need to take the engine out of the frame!
 
Thanks for the interesting hijack none the less, some bikes will do the 'crank out without removing the engine from the frame' , no toold required, although the results aren't always as one would expect!!!!
Regards Mike
 
Gaggle of racing BMs would have been the Boxer Cup class ?
Quite a hotrod bike already.
And that class insists on only a small list of allowed mods ??

At the risk of more thread hijacking, can recall seeing a desmo duke (bevel v) neatly depositing a whole piston sitting intact and neatly upright on the track, no tools involved.
Thats quite a trick.
So anything is possible, 'in the frame'.
 
Here is a link to the winning Norton.
Very very quick.
Ready to Race Finally

A bit of trawling and it was built here in NZ with local new crankcases, TT gearbox, 80 BHP.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/53591907@N ... /lightbox/
 
That is exactly what worries me about my commando engine - the crank might come out without using tools. The Paul Dobbs bike looks excellent, however simply another case of 'how fast can you afford to go ? '. My feeling is that motorcycle road racing does not justify extreme fiscal stress. I've never even owned a new motorcycle, let alone a new road race bike - I've always built my own and gone down the minimalist path, and still provided for my family. If you race you have a decision to make if you want to be at the top. The really good guys are all compulsive obsessive. For myself, I like to be able to walk away and achieve more important things with my life. Motorcycle racing is fun, however it is bullshit. In historic racing, most of the bikes are cheaters, and the rules are set up for that to happen. My own Seeley 850 is fairly close to a Gus Kuhn F750 bike, however it never existed in the old days. The Gus Kuhn and JPN commandos were Mk3 Seeley based 750s, - not 850s, and certainly not Mk 4 Seeleys with 920cc engines and six speed TTI boxes. So are we talking about historic racing, or classic racing with a lassez faire approach ?
 
Matt Spencer said:
thats better . T.T. / I.o.M. some intresting pics , 1975 .

Ready to Race Finally


" #7, Aussie Jack Findlay on the 830cc Norton during the Open Classic TT practice... " w e l l , short stroke 750 :? anyway . ANYONE really KNOW . :?:

Ready to Race & NORTON ; Anyway . :)
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So why is this bike wearing a Cosworth Challenge swinging arm and rear disc, but Commando Monocoque style separate exhausts?
 
Ready to Race Finally


how-the-west-won-eventually-then-shut-shop-t11783.html

The media sleths incesantly sought ' improvements ' to feature , so they could sell magazines .
hence a pile of M M's to cut up or MC Sport , M Clist Ilus ( uk ) etc of the era would reveal minuate .
Even when blurb incorrect , photographic evidance . appears thats a 75 Non Iso Short Stroke ,
& therefore It Was Raced . Theres a Thing . Now WE KNOW .

purloining the works development records , if there was such a thing , might get intresting . :(
 
Ready to Race Finally


that other bloke " #10, Dave Croxford, 830cc Norton in Open Classic TT practice... " no say F750 , ' classic T. T. ' perhaps 830 IS Legitamate ! :shock:
 
acotrel said:
I think you have a real problem when you try to get a boxer engined BMW to go quick. I believe it was John Hartle who rode the solo Rennsport 500cc GP bikes in t he 60s with a bit of success, however Geoff Duke walked away and stopped racing. If you are getting anywhere near a hot commando with a decent rider, you should be happy. There is a guy here in Victoria (Ecco Engineering) who runs BMWs in three historic classes. The guy who rides for him is one of the best ever, yet they are only moderately successful, and it costs a bomb. I don't know how you would ever get the gearing right on one of those, and it is a critical factor on any race bike.
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If I remember right Helmut Dahne had at least one TT win in the production class at the TT and of course there was the Dattona win in the mid 70s, yes these we're factory supported efforts, but with bikes that looked much more standard than a Commando racer! My heavily modified, but perfectly civilized and reliable 1982 airhead produces over 70 BHp at the rear wheel.
 
after the Japs got the Triples banned as being antiques thus unsafe :roll: , Triumph haveing won the P. R. 6 years on the trot , the Triples 5 ,

Ready to Race Finally



" In 1976, he and partner Hans-Otto Butenuth were the fastest finisher in the Production TT with a 900cc BMW R 90 S. Being one of the few non-British riders who could keep up with the locals, Dähne came second twice, in 1986, and in 1984 by only 2 seconds "

http://dbpedia.org/page/Helmut_D%C3%A4hne

:lol:

The Hardships some Have To endure ;
Ready to Race Finally

:D http://www.fedrotriple.it/competizioni- ... -d-or.html
 
chasbmw said:
If I remember right Helmut Dahne had at least one TT win in the production class at the TT and of course there was the Dattona win in the mid 70s, yes these we're factory supported efforts, but with bikes that looked much more standard than a Commando racer! My heavily modified, but perfectly civilized and reliable 1982 airhead produces over 70 BHp at the rear wheel.
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Hi, yes I have followed your threads on ADV rider, I'm thinking of give Mr Moore a call.....or I could ask Supershaft :lol:
I suspect 65 BHP won't be that difficult, I'm happy enough with cornering, and now I have got a set of Avon race tyres instead of the BT45's.
 
What was the BHP figure for Slippery Sam ? And I think the handling would have been just as disgusting.
 
acotrel said:
What was the BHP figure for Slippery Sam ? And I think the handling would have been just as disgusting.
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Handling disgusting? Why? Ever ridden a stock T150 or a Rob North version? Ever been to the IoM? Ever seen any video clips of Slippery Sam and wonder why it won 5 times?

Shades of Commandos are so horrible....until you actually witness or ride one yourself, your immediate opinion is always negative and utterly worthless.
 
ML said:
[
Handling disgusting? Why? Ever ridden a stock T150 or a Rob North version?
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Puts hand up!

Rob North Trident... best handling bike I can recall riding. Perfect neural steering, light and so, so easy. I got off it and told the owner it was like playing a video game. You just have to look at a corner and that's where it goes.
 
I've ridden ridden a standard Trident, the weight is too far back, and the bike stands up too easily. I've also ridden a standard BMW R69S - brilliant bike, however the steering was dangerous. The leading link forks rise under braking, so what do you think happens if you are fanging the bike around a race circuit braking right down into coners then getting straight back onto the power with quit a a bit of torque reaction. Geoff Duke walked away from BMW in the early 60s, Hartle remained - what does that tell you ? I suggest the handling of the boxer engined BMW might still not be totally resolved.
 
Here are some shots of NZ ( and I figure Australia) fastest Norton.(Pics by Ralp Blundell)
Ready to Race Finally
Ready to Race Finally
Ready to Race Finally

Regards Mike
 
Acrotel

You cant seem to help yourself at the moment.

I am sure Beng will be able to post an article that Ray Knight wrote about the first standard T150 to be raced in the UK at Thruxton.

It handles, its big & its heavy but it handles.

I have a standard framed & a raised frame T150 with revised dampers in the front forks. Fred Swift built original works spec engine, works pistons, cams (set up for top end) lighten rocker gear, 6 lb of the standard crank ( by the way an item that is twisted when hot to get the journal positions & described by Doug Hele as a component that never caused problems on the racers or on the production bikes) Mk1 carbs Carrilo rods as the standard alloys need replacing if you keep taking it over 9,000 .
A delight to ride, the raised frame came about because of the Rayguns dragging & the primary drive case wearing through. Not the Same as my Seeleys but
digusting!!!!! I think not.
The North is like the Seeleys you don't think about it, it just goes where you want it.
My Rickman is another matter. Probably just the Betor forks but as I don't have spares (& have never seen any for sale) It wont get sorted.

Chris
My
 
" What was the BHP figure for Slippery Sam ? And I think the handling would have been just as disgusting. "

mustve been maybe 70 as it wasnt 80 as it didnt have 30's , like the F - 750 s

" I've ridden ridden a standard Trident, the weight is too far back, and the bike stands up too easily. "

Triumps steer on the throttle , drop the nose and hold it down on the power . :) that gets it to hook up on the dirt .

Ready to Race Finally


The 14 stone man iac who thought the T120 a bit slow , did 50 miles to the gate in 27 minutes . 111.11 Avg .
Half on these GRAVEL ROADS . and was sitting at the table at noon . the last 25 miles was unsealed .
First trip on a 4 speed drum brake trident . Hurling Haybales beats any Gym .
Over 80 through the drop off / water crossing , and they run straight . Bit of a bump at the ton though . :( :)
125 before the right onto the cement bridge in the dip . :wink:

Dont snake & weave like a Japper , if you keep the throttle leading . Rice burners couldnt corner with a Brit , in 78 ,
on the undulateing chip seal either . Theyed be leathal at those speeds on the granite & clay back roads .
 
This is a typical bumpy chip seal farming country road in N.Z. ( BAN housing developers :twisted: )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KubGVzd64rg 2013 Cliffhanger Hill Climb - Jay Lawrence on the Bridgestone ZX10R

record run . turn the noise of so you can appreciate it . :wink:
Commando youd run the curves & watch / avoid the ruts . Throttle Nailed at corner exit , brake to bend speed & flick over to peg & connect @ correct throttle . so say we .
Triumph youd run it through on the throttle , if you had the muscle to keep it turning / not get spat off .

as in classic road race tecnique - Norton . Yee Haw Cowboy body language on the Triumph . Id figure youd figure the Commando could be stiffer , there .

Note the concrette bridge abuttments , barbed wire fences , drop offs & banks . you Ride WITHIN your limits . ALLWAYS .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASDxUkvs6mA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPIECTza1iA
 
Thats a nicely presented authentic, original pre 72 Commando Steve Bridges rides. :roll:
 
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