Neutral Finding

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M

Milo of Vt.

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Dec 11, 2012
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Hi,

I recently finished total rebuild, including gearbox. 69 Commando. Runs beautifully. Installed rear sets. The only problem I have is that finding neutral is a bear. The easiest way is to glide down slowly in 2nd and gently lift it in...and check with release of clutch before I come to a stop. But not all stops in stop and go traffic can be so leisurely. For example nudging up a hill in traffic. One can't glide to a stop there.

Is there any common problem that folks have found that cause neutral finding problems.

The gearbox, otherwise, is fantastic. At least as good if not better shifting than my brand new Ducati 796.

Milo of Vt.
 
Hi, welcome! A slight clutch drag can do it. Have you got a Dynodave clutch rod seal yet?
 
I am not sure...don't recall (finished rebuild winter before last) I'll check my book, but I doubt it.

Do you mean that the cause is likely drag? I am not sure what you mean by that. Thanks for your help.
 
Most people (myself included) find that most neutral-finding problems are created by a dragging clutch. Make sure the pushrod and cable adjustment are by the book. The next likely is tranny oil contamination on the clutch plates. That, or the clutch plates are warped and dragging. What oil are you running in the primary? The general consensus is "F"-type ATF.

Before starting, pull the clutch level and push the kickstarter down. Does it seem to drop with zero resistance (other than the spring)?

With the bike on the center stand and idling in first gear, you should be able to pull in the clutch, tap the rear brake to stop the wheel, and it should remain stopped until you release the clutch.

Both of these checks will tell you if you have a dragging clutch giving you problems. I know the test for a free kickstarter is somewhat subjective, but, if you try that on bike with a good clutch, it'll be pretty obvious.

Keep us posted!

Nathan
 
I had that problem when I got my commando. PO had some friggin aftermarket fiber plates in the clutch. I could never get the stack height right with those things and neutral was a bitch. I bit the bullet and bought the OEM steel and bronze plates. Never a problem since. Neutral is a dream as well as all other gearbox operation.

Just sayin, that's my experience.
 
Milo of Vt. said:
I am not sure...don't recall (finished rebuild winter before last) I'll check my book, but I doubt it.

Do you mean that the cause is likely drag? I am not sure what you mean by that. Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
Gear oil can creep out onto the clutch, can cause drag, slip or both. Was it working better before? Progressively harder to get neutral? Or same since rebuild?
 
Great advice. I'll try those things and report back. Unfortunately, I don't know how it ran before as I bought it disassembled. All attempts to contact prior owner have been met with silence. He sold me a nice bike, though. Thanks, guys.
 
I have never figured out how gear oil can get from the tranny to the chain case and have never had that happen on my bike. But I guess it can since folks say it does. To be honest, I've always figured that if it does that, the tranny has too much oil in it. :)

As the linked article states, a Commando can (should) have an easy two-finger, non-slipping clutch if stack height is right.
 
I sent you a PM with complete instructions as to how to both check and set your clutch through the primary inspection cap, as my guess is that the plates are simply not freeing up enough fully when you pull the clutch lever in at the handlebar.
 
An improperly torqued clutch fixing nut can also give this symptom.

If the clutch assembly get slightly loose on the mainshaft it can feel like improper adjustment.
The problem can be due to bad lock washer.
My cure for a similar problem was to fit the belleville washer behind the nut with some loctite and torque to 40 ft-lbs.
 
Also make sure the primary chain is adjusted properly. Many have reported clutch drag like symptoms from a too tight primary.
 
Ok mike I will lay it out for you. think of first gear pair as an oil pump, 1st main is smaller than the OD of the bearing. as the oil is picked up by 1st lay and squeezed out as it gets to the top it is forced through the main shaft bearing and floods the clutch release housing. than to make matters working the clutch makes the pushrod act as an oil pump as it moves in the main shaft. pretty simple?

mike996 said:
I have never figured out how gear oil can get from the tranny to the chain case.

To be honest, I've always figured that if it does that, the tranny has too much oil in it. :)
Click to expand...
 
Yeah - sounds simple… but it doesn't happen...Unless my Norton/tranny is somehow unique, which I doubt. In 8 years with my current '73 Norton and the years with my original '71 back in the day it was (is) never an issue. Maybe the Japanese built those two bikes? :)
 
I'm having troubles understanding that too but do know gearbox oil drifting into the clutch via pushrod tunnel in mainshaft center is a serious concern. :|
 
After 39 years of owning my Norton I have never had tranny oil in my primary at all, the problem is poeple over fill their gear box, I messure my gear box oil to what the manual says and have never had any problems and don't use the overfill cube, I also put grease on my clutch rod which will also stop oil going down the main shaft, who needs to buy a clutch seal kit when its not needed, if oil is finding its way down the shaft you are over filling your gearbox.

Ashley
 
Bob Z. said:
An improperly torqued clutch fixing nut can also give this symptom.

If the clutch assembly get slightly loose on the mainshaft it can feel like improper adjustment.
The problem can be due to bad lock washer.
My cure for a similar problem was to fit the belleville washer behind the nut with some loctite and torque to 40 ft-lbs.
Click to expand...

OP, this post brings up a good point... EVERY SERVICE MANUAL , factory and aftermarket, have the WRONG torque value printed for that clutch nut. Using the 70 ft. lb. value, the circlip on the mainshaft is partially mangled. Blue Loctite with 40 ft. lbs is one of the accepted assembly procedures.
 
Torontonian said:
I'm having troubles understanding that too but do know gearbox oil drifting into the clutch via pushrod tunnel in mainshaft center is a serious concern. :|
Click to expand...
Yeah, me too. But, everytime I had problems with dragging and/or slipping, there was a very distinct odor of tranny oil whilst disassembling the clutch. Ever since adding a clutch rod seal, that ship has sailed (thankfully)!
 
Milo of Vt. said:
I am not sure...don't recall (finished rebuild winter before last) I'll check my book, but I doubt it.

Do you mean that the cause is likely drag? I am not sure what you mean by that. Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

Drag! This is my definition.. And others will no doubt have other opinions..

Whilst in nuetral at the lights or wherever you select 1st and it clicks/grates a few teeth and ushers the bike forward requiring you have to "hold" it stationary.... or...

When on centre stand and in nuetral and making brooom brooom noises the rear wheel rotates significantly while in neutral.. Thats the "drag" ..

In neutral on the c/stand and the rear rotating "slowly", meaning slowly enough so you can see the valve going by is OK. Also If your game enough to put you safety boot against the wheel/tyre and the rotation stops easily then thats OK.

If you cant stop the rotations in neutral then you need to "adjust the clutch".. No need to change plugs, tyre pressure, colour scheme or add a mirriade of aftermarket parts.. Or at least until the problem has been identified

Thats what i think...
 
olChris said:
When on centre stand and in nuetral and making brooom brooom noises the rear wheel rotates significantly while in neutral.. Thats the "drag" ..
Click to expand...

It is drag, but it isn't 'clutch' drag.

olChris said:
In neutral on the c/stand and the rear rotating "slowly", meaning slowly enough so you can see the valve going by is OK. Also If your game enough to put you safety boot against the wheel/tyre and the rotation stops easily then thats OK.

If you cant stop the rotations in neutral then you need to "adjust the clutch"..
Click to expand...

If it isn't possible to prevent the wheel rotating in neutral then the gearbox needs rebuilding!

If that happens when in gear, or when attempting to select a gear with the clutch lever pulled in, then clutch adjustment may be necessary.
 
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