First gear jumps out in neutral

ludwig said:
Piero,
a few years ago, you asked the same question. (do a search)
It was discussed in great length.
I even suggested a mod on the camplate, that would make sure the box never jumped out of 1st again.
So you got all the answers.
What more do you want to know?
Click to expand...
Hi.
I know, look at my topic that begins with “old story” .
So that i cannot ask again?.
My old descendants said “repetita iuvant”!.
 
pierodn said:
I know, look at my topic that begins with “old story” .

So that i cannot ask again?.
Click to expand...

Yes, but unfortunately didn't mention it was your old story already covered in previous threads as that would have made it clearer to everyone, however, I don't think there is any more information available that had not been mentioned in those previous threads.
:)
So, how are you getting on with this? Did you measure the kickstart shaft end-float? Is it excessive?
 
L.A.B. said:
Yes, but unfortunately didn't mention it was your old story already covered in previous threads as that would have made it clearer to everyone, however, I don't think there is any more information available that had not been mentioned in those previous threads.
:)
So, how are you getting on with this? Did you measure the kickstart shaft end-float? Is it excessive?
Click to expand...
i apologize if i didn't remember my own thread of 2018.
i'll have to use a shim to my brain, may be there is too much end play.
thanks

Piero
 
There has been a ton of great information presented in this thread! Thanks, from a new guy!

I am still curious about something though, what is this two finger clutch of which you speak (MichealD)?

Mine requires considerable force to squeeze. It seems perfectly functional, just a hard pull...

And something I could offer on the stoplight issue, I'm sure most of us know, but always stop to one side of the car in front of you, so that if you are rear-ended, you won't get squashed like a grape between two cars!
 
Edfury828 said:
I am still curious about something though, what is this two finger clutch of which you speak (MichealD)?

Mine requires considerable force to squeeze. It seems perfectly functional, just a hard pull...
Click to expand...

Increasing the stack height can considerably reduce the effort required to operate the clutch, however, it is possible to go too far as the lighter clutch lever action is only achieved from a reduction in the diaphragm spring's clamping force.

Hard to Pull Clutch - Ideas? (2011)

dynodave = Hamilton Mass USA USA has high school to 12th grade Junior high or middle school 6-8 grade I was 12-13 in 8th grade Yes, as I looked it up but shows how easy it is to assume everyone automatically knows what certain things mean. 12th grade = 17-18 years. I'd have been at work 1-2...
www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com
 
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Thanks L.A.B., I think I've got it! I'll look into my clutch hight and see if I need a 3 or 4mm plate, maybe a new cable too, as soon as I can get to it.

Also, and this may be unrelated (?) from the very little I've ridden my Mk III, I have found it quite hard to shift, or to move the shift lever at all when at a stop. Even by hand. It doesn't seem bad if you're moving...

The P.O. rebuilt the trans about 200 miles ago. Does that sound like something easy to remedy, could it be just something out of adjustment?
 
Edfury828 said:
I think I've got it! I'll look into my clutch hight and see if I need a 3 or 4mm plate, maybe a new cable too, as soon as I can get to it.
Click to expand...


Replacing one plain plate with the RGM 3.0mm plate thereby increasing the stack height (by 1.0mm) should result in a noticeably lighter action without slip. Any more than +1.0mm (the +2.0mm, 4.0mm RGM plate) could potentially result in clutch slip unless the (original bronze?) friction plates are worn which is unlikely as they don't seem to wear much.

A Venhill Featherlight (Teflon lined) clutch cable can also help to lighten the clutch action.

Edfury828 said:
Also, and this may be unrelated (?) from the very little I've ridden my Mk III, I have found it quite hard to shift, or to move the shift lever at all when at a stop. Even by hand. It doesn't seem bad if you're moving...

The P.O. rebuilt the trans about 200 miles ago. Does that sound like something easy to remedy, could it be just something out of adjustment?
Click to expand...

Cleaning the (original bronze?) friction plates would probably improve that, at least temporarily. Replacing the bronze plates with a set of (x5) Barnett or Surflex friction plates should improve the shifting when stopped.

The Mk3 cross-over gearchange mechanism (shaft, bushes and coupler) can wear so the action becomes imprecise (or just sloppy) which doesn't help the gear selection at a stop.
 
Ah, thanks! I can't wait to get into that clutch and see what's going on! The hard pull is not acceptable to me, and it appears there is no reason to tolerate it.

To that end, I went ahead and ordered a 3 mm plate from Andover # 13.1948 (assuming it's as good as RGM? Via Baxter's, I hope will save on overseas shipping) which it seems (almost?) inevitable that I will need once I open things up.

Btw, the P.O. told me at the time of purchase that he used a mixture of stock and Barnett disc's and/or plates in there for some reason...I know he thought it was the way to go, maybe he's onto something? All I know is I really need to have a look!
 
Edfury828 said:
Ah, thanks! I can't wait to get into that clutch and see what's going on! The hard pull is not acceptable to me, and it appears there is no reason to tolerate it.
Click to expand...

Hopefully, you already know you must have a diaphragm spring compressor tool, either buy or make if you don't have it.
andover-norton.co.uk

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.
andover-norton.co.uk

Edfury828 said:
To that end, I went ahead and ordered a 3 mm plate from Andover # 13.1948 (assuming it's as good as RGM?...
Click to expand...

I expect so. Andover only recently started selling the thicker plate.

Edfury828 said:
Btw, the P.O. told me at the time of purchase that he used a mixture of stock and Barnett disc's and/or plates in there for some reason...I know he thought it was the way to go, maybe he's onto something?
Click to expand...


Fitting a combination of thicker (4-plate clutch) and thinner (5-plate clutch) friction plates is another way to adjust stack height.
 
Also, older Barnett plates were known to be "grabby" so a combination of Barnett and other plates were sometimes used to soften the clutch engagement. I don't think the latest Barnett plates have this problem although I've not used any Barnett plates (I have Surflex plates in my Mk3).
 
I first wanted to buy a nice Clutch Compressor tool, then decided to be practical and make one using the PVC cap method, but that's yet another project I dont have time for!

One Andover Norton Clutch Compressor tool 06-0999 ordered!

Good to hear it should be fine to use the AN 3 mm plate. I was trusting thier reputation as I've been able to ascertain. It seemed like a safe move, but then I did notice everyone was saying RGM...
 
Edfury828 said:
It seemed like a safe move, but then I did notice everyone was saying RGM...
Click to expand...

Yes, RGM was until recently, the only supplier of the thicker plates (after OldBritts stopped making their shim plates) and I'm sure the Andover plate is as good.
 
Looking forward to it! The bike already does have a Venhill clutch cable too, so the problem must be in the clutch basket!
 
Edfury828 said:
Thanks L.A.B., I think I've got it! I'll look into my clutch hight and see if I need a 3 or 4mm plate, maybe a new cable too, as soon as I can get to it.

Also, and this may be unrelated (?) from the very little I've ridden my Mk III, I have found it quite hard to shift, or to move the shift lever at all when at a stop. Even by hand. It doesn't seem bad if you're moving...

The P.O. rebuilt the trans about 200 miles ago. Does that sound like something easy to remedy, could it be just something out of adjustment?
Click to expand...
All MK 111 owners should be aware of the neutral indicator button on the cam plate wearing a slot into it , which causes troubles and neutral , 1 st. and 2 nd. gear shifting issues . All summer I thought it was clutch so trying new clutch combos didn't help . Backing off the neutral switch cured the problem , temporarily . The gearbox is on the bench now with a new button and a shimmed layshaft kicker end . The roller lay bearing looks good .
 
I finally got into my MK III clutch. It turned out that gear oil had migrated along the push-rod and thoroughly soaked the entire basket! So, I suppose the hard lever pull was due to the disc's being all stuck together. I ordered a push-rod seal / nut and "easy pull clutch kit" from CNW.

Maybe I could've made do with the mixed Barnett / Bronze Norton disc's, but it seemed like a lot of unknowns for me, compared to a complete new matched kit. I think this should make a nice easy dependable set up. Looking forward to pleasant shifting!!!
 

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Well, so much for the sticky plate theory, doh! How about the measurements in these pics? Do they indicate a bad stack height?

In my uncertainty about that and the mixed disc types I decided to replace all and hopefully assure a good result. I was torn as to which way was best. If I had a full set either disc type I would have been more likely to try and set up the stack. Extra money in my pocket contributed to the decision!
 

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