First gear jumps out in neutral

i agree its bad practice but if done prudently doesnt seem to have done any harm
 
baz said:
They carried out a study of traffic light accidents where cars rear ended stationary bikes I believe
So it's now recommended to be back from the car in front of you
In first gear
Keeping an eye on your mirror for any car coming too fast behind you
So you can manoeuvre out of the way
Someone will correct me if I have this wrong
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I don't drive in city traffic much anymore but I always did look in my mirrors. Flashed my brake light on and off as I slowed down and kept a good eye out for someone coming too fast. And made sure I was ready to get out of the way of something that looked like ut was not going to stop.

I beleive the car practice taught in NZ is to go into neutral and put the hand brake on. Then if your hit from behind you may not get fired out into the traffic.

Perhaps modern bike clutches can take this punishment but for sure my old Matchless one would not. And if you look at a Commando even a perfectly set up clutch is going to generate a bit of heat.
 
johnm said:
Goodness. Why on earth would they teach that?

A very long time since I passed my licence. Both in NZ and the UK but that is certainly not what I was taught. And you can determine it for yourself. Holding the clutch in while sitting at the lights will slowly heat up most bike clutches.
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When I took my rider training about 5 years ago, we were taught clutch engaged, bike in gear, and one leg down at a stop light.

The reasoning was it gave you more time to react if someone was coming in from behind hot.
 
johnm said:
I don't drive in city traffic much anymore but I always did look in my mirrors. Flashed my brake light on and off as I slowed down and kept a good eye out for someone coming too fast. And made sure I was ready to get out of the way of something that looked like ut was not going to stop.

I beleive the car practice taught in NZ is to go into neutral and put the hand brake on. Then if your hit from behind you may not get fired out into the traffic.

Perhaps modern bike clutches can take this punishment but for sure my old Matchless one would not. And if you look at a Commando even a perfectly set up clutch is going to generate a bit of heat.
Click to expand...
I was rear ended whilst waiting to turn left at a T junction a few months ago
The car had stopped behind me so I paid no attention to it
Then just as the traffic cleared I went pull away and the car behind just drove into me
He pushed me forward with such force that the bumper
got jammed between the tyre and mudguard of my bike
And the car and bike were actually locked together until I got him to reverse!!
 
SEd27 said:
When I took my rider training about 5 years ago, we were taught clutch engaged, bike in gear, and one leg down at a stop light.

The reasoning was it gave you more time to react if someone was coming in from behind hot.
Click to expand...
I would never sit in gear holding the clutch in no matter what I was taught
It's not what a clutch is designed to do
 
Got my training and class 6 license 8 yrs ago. Was drilled into us newbies to have the bike in gear at all times in traffic and when stopped at lights for the very reasons mentioned previously.
As to potential clutch harm, been doing it now for some 20k miles on my Commando and 70k KM's on my modern bonneville. Most of my riding has at least a few hours of stop and go urban riding each trip. No issues with original bronze clutch, no signs of excess heating.
Also, in Hemming's excellent GB rebuild DVD video, he specifically mentions not to let the bike idle for long periods in neutral as there will be excess wear on the counter(?) shaft bushing due to poor oil splash reaching it when in neutral.
 
Tornado said:
Got my training and class 6 license 8 yrs ago. Was drilled into us newbies to have the bike in gear at all times in traffic and when stopped at lights for the very reasons mentioned previously.
As to potential clutch harm, been doing it now for some 20k miles on my Commando and 70k KM's on my modern bonneville. Most of my riding has at least a few hours of stop and go urban riding each trip. No issues with original bronze clutch, no signs of excess heating.
Also, in Hemming's excellent GB rebuild DVD video, he specifically mentions not to let the bike idle for long periods in neutral as there will be excess wear on the counter(?) shaft bushing due to poor oil splash reaching it when in neutral.
Click to expand...
Try doing it on a triumph twin or any BSA or royal Enfield
Or just about any Brit bike
 
Tornado said:
Got my training and class 6 license 8 yrs ago. Was drilled into us newbies to have the bike in gear at all times in traffic and when stopped at lights for the very reasons mentioned previously.
As to potential clutch harm, been doing it now for some 20k miles on my Commando and 70k KM's on my modern bonneville. Most of my riding has at least a few hours of stop and go urban riding each trip. No issues with original bronze clutch, no signs of excess heating.
Also, in Hemming's excellent GB rebuild DVD video, he specifically mentions not to let the bike idle for long periods in neutral as there will be excess wear on the counter(?) shaft bushing due to poor oil splash reaching it when in neutral.
Click to expand...
Ah well. Seems the world may have changed on me again. 🤔🤔🤔 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I'm in the country now anyway and actually cannot remember the last time I sat at a traffic light on my Commando. 😎
 
I drive heavy city traffic and then country ( hopefully ) . Neutral is very important to me . This advice was likely not given with 50 year old machines in mind .
 
johnm said:
Goodness. Why on earth would they teach that?

A very long time since I passed my licence. Both in NZ and the UK but that is certainly not what I was taught. And you can determine it for yourself. Holding the clutch in while sitting at the lights will slowly heat up most bike clutches.
Click to expand...
I had heard this argument - which is not what I do. In gear at all times at lights.
So I did an experiment. Got home after a 60 mile ride, took the primary cover off and felt the temperature of the clutch with my hand. Could comfortably hold my hand there - so lets say 50 degrees C.
Restarted the bike, put it in gear and idled for 3 minutes, back wheel on the ground.
Used my hand to re-check temperature - no difference as far as I could tell.
I have the cNw belt & dry clutch combo.
Cheers

Sounds like an old husbands tale - aren't I politically correct! 🤣 🤣
 
Last edited:
Well there's your answer Pierodn
Just leave your bike in gear
Don't use neutral apart from starting the engine
Or maybe bump start it
Never use neutral ever again
Sorted !!
 
Richard Tool said:
As to the bit about staying in gear and disengaging the clutch at traffic lights - wait till the clutch cable breaks .Ask me how I know …
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But now that we know how to make Commando clutches "two finger" light, perhaps clutch cables won't break? I've removed the spare that had sat alongside my working cable for the last 30 years.

A couple of weeks ago, some friends with modern 1200cc+ bikes had heard that the commando clutch was really stiff, so they asked to try mine. I proudly let them try my newly superlight clutch, and they couldn't believe how heavy it was! I tried theirs and the lever didn't seem to be connected to anything.

Then last week we were in a bike cafe that had older bikes for sale in the lower floor, so we went down and there was a Norton Commando, I tried the clutch and it was just like mine used to be. Mates tried it and didn't dare move it more than about an inch because they thought something had siezed and they didn't want to risk breaking it. Or maybe they didn't have the strength in their hands to move the lever to the bar ...
 
So, getting back to the OP's question about why it's jumping out of first gear. My '73 850 also does this (even if I leave it in gear at stops), and yes, it does have about 60 thousands of end float at the kickstart. So I will be taking a good look in the gearbox very soon, first to see if the layshaft bearing needs changing, then shimming as necessary. But my question is this, which gears are the ones that jump out of mesh and need to be inspected for rounded dogs and mating holes. Is it the layshaft 1st and 2nd gear cogs? And it's that 1st gear cog that needs to have a snug bushing - yes? My thoughts here are that with all the labor and fettling involved, any reason not to just replace these gears with new (including the already fitted bushing) as part of a gearbox rebuild? Thanks.
 
BruceB said:
But my question is this, which gears are the ones that jump out of mesh and need to be inspected for rounded dogs and mating holes. Is it the layshaft 1st and 2nd gear cogs?
Click to expand...

Yes.

BruceB said:
And it's that 1st gear cog that needs to have a snug bushing - yes?
Click to expand...

Yes.

BruceB said:
My thoughts here are that with all the labor and fettling involved, any reason not to just replace these gears with new (including the already fitted bushing) as part of a gearbox rebuild?
Click to expand...

You could, but ideally, gears would normally be replaced in pairs, therefore, mainshaft and layshaft 1st and 2nd gears when all it could need is a new 1st gear bush and shims to reduce the .060" end play to .005" - 010".

"Check end play on the layshaft..."
 
Thanks L.A.B., that helps me understand where to inspect for wear.
And good point about the matching gears on the main shaft. So I think we'd be talking about replacing 4 gear cogs now and that does start to get a bit spendy.
 
pierodn said:
Hello to All.
An old story this.
I usually solve the problem changing the first gear layshaft bush.
Do you have other suggests?.
Thank you.
Piero
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Piero,
a few years ago, you asked the same question. (do a search)
It was discussed in great length.
I even suggested a mod on the camplate, that would make sure the box never jumped out of 1st again.
So you got all the answers.
What more do you want to know?
 
ludwig said:
Piero,
a few years ago, you asked the same question. (do a search)
It was discussed in great length.
I even suggested a mod on the camplate, that would make sure the box never jumped out of 1st again.
So you got all the answers.
What more do you want to know?
Click to expand...
11 TH november 2019.......
 
L.A.B. said:

First gear jumps at high RPM

Old story. Bearings new. To check the theet of first gears and the bushes of first gear mainshaft?. What else?. Ciao. Piero
www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com

Also...
Jun 7, 2018

First gear jumps out to high RPM

Hi. Bike runs great but now the first gear, that engages well, jumps out at high rpm. What i must check? Thank you. Piero
www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com
Click to expand...
Any chance of getting photos ( Photobucket ones are deleted ) and learn how and where to remove cam plate material ?
 
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