Mobil One Quality?

oh boy an oil thread!

mikegray660 said:

oh boy an oil thread!

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Yup, and you're posting in it too! Sucks you right in, doesn't it?

Wow ! Look what washed up on the oil slick !

I used Mobil One for 10 years with no issues, maybe I was just lucky

I use Mobil 1 20W50 V Twin partly because it has a high Zinc content additive that the flat faced lifters in the Norton prefer.
Oil consumption maybe a cup in 2,000 miles!

The owner of Donelson Cycles, former Norton dealer and owner of many Nortons, said that I was crazy to put Synthetic Oil in my Commando. He recommended Morris Golden Film SAE40 for winter and SAE 50 for Summer.

I think it is crazy not to take advantage of the superior anti-oxidising properties of synthetic. An air cooled engine is hard on oil and needs all the help it can get in that respect.

Have you ever noticed how quickly conventional oil turns black in a Norton. Contrary to some old wives tails black oil does not mean it is keeping your engine clean. What it does mean that it is oxidizing.

The oxides in oil that cause it to turn black are extremely hard microscopic carbon particles. Oxidized oil is like an extremely fine polishing compound. The particles are so small they are not in contact with the metal when an engine is running as the protective film is thicker than the particles. They do cause wear on start up and anytime there is metal to metal contact. Jim

Johnnymac said:

The owner of Donelson Cycles, former Norton dealer and owner of many Nortons, said that I was crazy to put Synthetic Oil in my Commando. He recommended Morris Golden Film SAE40 for winter and SAE 50 for Summer.

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Morris recommend it's only used in non-filtered engines where the oil drops the crap out into the sump, tank or sludge trap. I wouldn't use it in a filtered Commando engine.

I'll go with comnoz synthetic works for me.

Cash

It's hard to get to the bottom of the ZDDP, zinc/phosporous content of various oils, including Mobil 1 20W50 V Twin. They don't give an actual figure in their literature, either the Product Data Sheet or the MSDS. But you can infer the levels from the API designation.

"Most engines built before 1985 have the flat/cleave bearing style systems of construction, which is sensitive to reducing zinc and phosphorus. Example; in API SG rated oils, this was at the 1200-1300 ppm level for zincs and phosphorus, where the current SM is under 600 ppm."
This is Wikipedia, of all places.

These are maximum limits, not minimums. Mobil 1 V Twin has an SG classification. It's got twice the levels of zinc and phosphorous of SM, but still not the 2000 ppm figures in some oils. 0.1%wt is approximently 1000 ppm in this case.

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=121&pcid=1

or

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=110&pcid=13

debby said:

mikegray660 said:

oh boy an oil thread!

Click to expand...

Yup, and you're posting in it too! Sucks you right in, doesn't it?

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Naw deb - i'm just trying to get my number of post'ing up into the swoosh-a-sphere, :roll:

The last time I used a straight weight dino oil was Valvoline Racing 50wt. I took a trip to Arizona. There was a 70deg swing in temperature from morning to afternoon. In the AM it was thick as honey and in the afternoon it looked like iced tea. Thick again the next morning. The oil had less than 1000mi on it. I've been in similar circumstances using 20w50 synthetic where it wasn't anywhere near as thick when cold or as thin when hot.
Commandos rely on an 'oil blizzard' in the crankcase for lubrication of the wristpins, SuperBlends, cam journals, and everything in the timing case. I can't see how that thick oil is going to start to fly around till it gets heated up some. I don't know if this is relevant, but I've come across the theory that oilfilters with pressure relief valves will open the valve when over-pressured by thick cold oil and basically purge themselves.
There's always some of this, I might try it next summer.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=111&pcid=13

cash said:

Johnnymac said:

The owner of Donelson Cycles, former Norton dealer and owner of many Nortons, said that I was crazy to put Synthetic Oil in my Commando. He recommended Morris Golden Film SAE40 for winter and SAE 50 for Summer.

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Morris recommend it's only used in non-filtered engines where the oil drops the crap out into the sump, tank or sludge trap. I wouldn't use it in a filtered Commando engine.

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In a wet sump engine I would agree, as the majority of particulate matter probably drops out of suspension during the time the engine is laying idle, but I'm not sure it would be much of a problem in a dry sump system where oil draining to the sump is almost immediately scavenged and returned to the oil tank? I suppose it could be argued that any solids would just settle out in the oil tank but that oil will already have been filtered.

rpatton said:

I don't know if this is relevant, but I've come across the theory that oilfilters with pressure relief valves will open the valve when over-pressured by thick cold oil and basically purge themselves.

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I expect any of the standard spin-on filters can easily cope with the relatively low rate of oil flow from a Commando's scavenge lubrication system without any bypass valve blowing-even if that oil was cold SAE50.

Using a non detergent oil might be of some benefit if the oil is full of tiny wear particles like oxidation. They are too small to be stopped by an oil filter and may be less damaging setting on the bottom of the engine and oil tank.

Here is a summary of several good oil articles I did some time ago. Jim

________
So what's the difference between "conventional" oil and "sythetic" motor oil.

At one time the sythetic designation indicated the oil was made by modifying
natural gas molecules. [even then synthetic came from dead dinosaurs]

Some years ago the term was legally modified to designate any oil that had
a controlled molecule size- no matter whether it was made from crude oil or
natural gas. That was done because it was very difficult to determine
the difference after manufacture.

To make "synthetic" oil from crude requires starting with a high grade stock
and extra refining to make sure there are no molecules larger or smaller than
the specified size.

The advantage to controlling the molecule size is the fact the resulting oil
is less sensitive to temperature change -ie; it doesn't get as thin when it
is hot or as thick when it is cold.

To make an oil with un-controlled molecule size less sensitive to temperature
change requires the use of additives known as "spin additives" or "VI improvers".
Heavy use of these additives to create the wide range oils that became available
in the 70s and 80s were what led to many of the camshaft failures of that time-
both in Nortons and auto engines. The spin additives were prone to fail with
high temperatures or fuel dilution and then the oil film would break down.

Modern oils made of high grade stock or synthesized from gas requires little if
any spin additive to make it into a wide range "multigrade". Whether the oil is
made of high grade stock or synthesized from gas, it is more resistant to
oxidation from high temps.

Some of the synthetic oils sold today are still made totally from synthesized gas
and are usually referred to as pure synthetic. The majority of the synthetic oils
sold today are either highly refined, high grade crude or a mixture of crude based
and gas based oils. I don't know of any advantage to one over the other.

A simple test to determine whether a synthetic would be a benefit to you is to
drain the oil at your normal interval into a glass jar and look at it. If it will
still pass light it is not too badley oxidized. If blocks the light it's not doing
your engine good. Jim
________

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf provides some interesting info on oils.

Blame the EPA.

By imposing "standards" that require "compliance" from the auto manufacturers -

The EPA forced the ZDDP out to enable catalytic converters to go 200,000 miles, to the detriment of sliding cam/followers, and

The EPA forced the viscosity down to enable higher mileage, to the detriment of the older, more loose clearanced engines of the past that were designed for/assume higher viscosity oils.

Yeah, Mobil 1 V Twin 20-50 is good stuff.

Since I change often, I find it a bit pricey. A couple months ago, I bought two 2 gallon jugs of 15-50 synthetic blend that I found at a local truck stop/diesel tractor parts store for $18 per. For the Norton, I added some ZDDP additive from Moss Motors to it and so far so good, I guess, no way to know really.

Edit - the brand name of those 2 gallon jugs is Mystik.

rpatton said:

The last time I used a straight weight dino oil was Valvoline Racing 50wt.

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Yeah, I know....an oil thread. Zillions (bigger than a "Google") of different opinions. Fact is, I've run Valvoline Racing 50 for 33 years...Pennsylvania and Florida climates. All I can say is my Combat didn't need new pistons, crank, bearings, etc. etc. when it was restored in 2008...Windy and GP can attest to the condition of the innards when it was opened up.

And there is nothing wrong with running conventional truck or racing oil as long as it is changed often enough that the oxidation does not build up too heavy.
I am too lazy to do that. I use Mobile one and change it it once or maybe twice a year. I seldom change it before 5000 miles and it still looks like oil when it comes out. The highly rated conventional racing racing oil I used to use looked like tar in 1000 miles. Jim

rx7171 said:

I use Mobil 1 20W50 V Twin partly because it has a high Zinc content additive that the flat faced lifters in the Norton prefer.
Oil consumption maybe a cup in 2,000 miles!

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API designations are followed very carefully, except when they aren't. V Twin does have much higher amounts of zinc and phosphorous than the SJ classification specifies. This list is current as of 10/2011.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mot ... _Guide.pdf

There are precedents, they are in the ZDDP section. Castrol and Redline also sell 'exceptions'. Amazing.

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/OilSelection.html#zddp

comnoz said:

Here is a summary of several good oil articles I did some time ago.

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This is interesting information but they have forgotten to mention something very important. Synthetic oils will not have molecules with unsaturated double-bonds and most other oils do. These unsaturated molecules will readily bond with others and form longer chains or gumming as it is commonly known. Other than synthetic oils the only way to know if the oil thickness (viscosity) will change over time is to know if the oil is made using a hydro-treated base stock. If not, then it is good to change the oil according to the manufacturers recommendation.