Ludwig cam oil bath tub

Re: Ludwig creates cam bath tub

hobot said:

Educational details Jim to let whiff through our minds chopping throttle to give the poor things a break. Would be extra educational to monitor with and w/o an efficient PCV. I think knock sensor headset might pick this flutter up. I don't think drive trains like the practice either.

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I have seen this effect with a carbon vane vacuum pump, a reed breather and also with an open breather leading into an airflow gauge made of a ping-pong ball in a clear plastic tube [long before electronics].

As the RPM's rise beyond a point then the rings will flutter even with full throttle. When they flutter, there is a sharp rise in blowby and a sudden loss of power to go along with it.
To get by when I was turning over 7500 rpm with my racebike I used 1mm rings in the top two grooves. That would allow around 8400 rpm before they would flutter.

When I made the video of my Commando with the pressure gauge and my reed breather you saw a sudden rise in crankcase pressure at the max RPM. That was caused by ring flutter.
It would take a very large breather and hose to keep the crankcase from pressurizing when the rings are fluttering. Jim

Do these 'scab' on tubs have to be removed to deal with cam?

I'ain't up on Norton ring flutter till now yet do want to press Peel's limits.
Could turn the ole pingpong manometer digital by having its motion block a row of light sensors. NASA gave some lab equip to our school that measured breath volume by blowing bubbles in a rotating cylinder floating in water with paper graph wrap and ink pen tracing. Hm how funny or effective would a ping pong ball novice swim snorkle be.

Wow 7500 is scary enough but 8400 is dramatic increase in all jerk loads. Dang. I missed the pressure drop video so thanks for filling me in. Wondered about limits of reed or others to keep blow by at bay at some point. No wonder you tested crank cases to failure and proud of it. The sudden onsets of failure mode phenomena is fascinating but pensive making, like big umbrella floating ya down fine > till flipped past full open.

Peel exht sucker under and boost on top may tame flutter beyond what rpm I can stand. If only Peel could hold together at 8K with the Drouin, OMG. Micro polished Nitride and hot running surfaces will have to do her sans oil bath.

Would'nt it be nicer with a BSA Victory or a XT 500 ? :wink:

ludwig said:

The reason for this oil bath is that I lost 2 camshafts is a relatively short period of time .
so I do it at a rather slow pace .

Riding prolonged periods at very low rpm is what kills cams .
Maybe the oil bath will help .
.

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The oil bath certainly couldn't hurt. There is no doubt the low rpm kills cams. What you need for that is roller lifters.

What was killing cams in my motor many years ago was using the "free" oil I got from the auto dealership I was working at at the time. [Penzoil 15-50] It killed the cams in many GM car engines also. The oil bath didn't help a bit for that.
What cured the problem for me was using an oil additive called BG-MOA. It contained a heavy dose of ZDDP and other friction modifiers. The difference was going from destroying 2 -2s cams in less than 1000 miles to no apparent wear with the additive. The one additional thing I did with the third cam was rifle drilling it and drilling the lobes for oil on the leading ramp.

The sequence was.

1. original stock MK3 cam failed at 9000 miles [soft? -I now doubt that was the main reason]

2. new 2s replacement failed in around 400 miles [TC gave me another one under warranty]

3. another new 2s cam with the trough added failed in another 400 miles. [so much for that idea]

4. the 3rd new 2s cam with rifle drilling and the trough removed lasted several more years with the additive. I removed it when I got tired of the narrow powerband and I still have it -in perfect condition.

I think the additive helped more than the drilled lobes -but who knows. I am still using a drilled cam in my bike -just because I didn't want to take any chances.

I have a couple other bikes here with similar cams and no drilling and they have had no problems. I just learned about better oils. Of course I tend to keep the rpm's up. Jim

That's spectacular groin gripping Mt. Graveling but it is still a smooth beaten path that don't really challenge suspension at the touring speeds wise riders use so only the tire texture cleats, soft compound and low-ish air really matter on the ascending part and slow dual brake gear drag wisdom on the way down not to brake if leaned or if front turned a wee bit at a few mph on dry loose stuff. If done with an AMC tranny do check the clutch wobble lay shaft bush state before and after return as no oil bathing inside till in 4th. Don't drop it as even that great looking path has rocks enough one can flip front one way while a rut flips rear the other, whoohoo. I am very pleased to know that epoxy will hold on Al tray with thermal expansion and vibration, which implies could just epoxy up a dam and maybe help anchor it with little studs or weld tacks to grip on. While nose down a long time ponder on how an OIF would have to drain to feed pump as well as nose high for hours.