JsMotorsport Maney 850 85bhp motor!

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john robert bould said:
Last week,Four guys in Scotland aint climbing any more mountains, If you want to get the "feel "of 100BHP commando, find a road like the cat and fiddle in cheshire and ride your stock Commando from Macclesfield-Buxton as fast as you dare, when you complete the course..or should i say if. Ask yourself the question...was 50 bhp enough?

The answer is MORE THAN ENOUGH! apart from excessive brake fade,and wobbly corning...you will scare yourself to death. The road as blind switch backs, off camber corners, steep U bends and all nicely dry stone walled...Google map it.
The "Cat" is Motorcycle New's most DANGEROUS road and many have been killed , it got that bad Bears in the Air and unmarked police bikes patroled everyweek end
Now 100bhp on an American free way,well it's not quite the same.?
Nortiboy said:
So why waste your life on fantasy motorcycles.... :lol:
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Why do men climb mountains ?. Because they are there.

Only justifying why I am currently building a supercharged short stroke.
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Indeed my old Husqvarna supermotard was enough for the wynding roads here in the Andes! But the Norton weighs a good 60 kilos more.85bhp would be just fine as I believe there may be a straight road up near Cartagena!
Al
 
john robert bould said:
Last week,Four guys in Scotland aint climbing any more mountains, If you want to get the "feel "of 100BHP commando, find a road like the cat and fiddle in cheshire and ride your stock Commando from Macclesfield-Buxton as fast as you dare, when you complete the course..or should i say if. Ask yourself the question...was 50 bhp enough?

The answer is MORE THAN ENOUGH! apart from excessive brake fade,and wobbly corning...you will scare yourself to death. The road as blind switch backs, off camber corners, steep U bends and all nicely dry stone walled...Google map it.
The "Cat" is Motorcycle New's most DANGEROUS road and many have been killed , it got that bad Bears in the Air and unmarked police bikes patroled everyweek end
Now 100bhp on an American free way,well it's not quite the same.?
Nortiboy said:
So why waste your life on fantasy motorcycles.... :lol:
Click to expand...

Why do men climb mountains ?. Because they are there.

The most dangerous thing in that road is avoiding the knob heads on GSXRs who think they can ride, and find out lots of power doesn't make you good.
I have a buddy with a tuned T140 who ties em up in knots.
Great road !

sam

Only justifying why I am currently building a supercharged short stroke.
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Just to get back on topic-What do we think a niceley put together motor with modern production parts would produce BHP wise?
 
Alloy barrels $1000
Lightweight crank $1600
Pistons $440
Rods $700
Cam,lifters etc $850
Cylinderhead $3000 more or less with the add ons

Total $7650
Sounds like a hoot-when do we start :mrgreen:
 
According to Kenny Dreer, his 880 motors dynoed between 60 and 65 rwhp and the highest number they recorded on a stock Commando was 50rwhp. Kenny Dreer put a lot into the making the modified engines durable, including casting his own strengthened crankcases, but sadly even he had to admit that they were "ticking time bombs" at that state of tune.
So to take an 828 cc motor to 85 rwhp, about 40 percent above Dreer 880 levels, and to do that with the significantly smaller 828 motor, is a pipe dream I'm afraid. I too have had weak moments where I have thought about building a modified street Commando with a much modified engine. I also seriously considered buying a Dreer 880 that was for sale recently. After doing a bit of reading, it was clear to me that the Dreer was way to fragile for my needs.
The only way to do it would be to build a totally new engine, perhaps a street version of the Maney 1007cc. Might be cheaper and more reliable just to order up one of the new 961 Commandos. I think there are a couple of lightly used ones for sale in the UK.

The funny thing is, when I get off this new to me Triumph Daytona 955i, dynoed at 140 rwhp with mods, even the little 650 ss still feels plenty powerful. When riding the Commando or the 650SS, instead of the Triumph, you just use a greater percentage of the available power, but there is still ample power available for any road use. A stock Commando is plenty quick enough to leave traffic far behind on acceleration and top speed is high enough to lose your license or worse.

Glen
 
It would be nice to hear from the manufacturers of the gear,what do they think such a motor would produce?
 
85 BHP is not far off the mark if this translates to around 75 RWHP.

If you are proposing to spring for:

AlColombia said:
Alloy barrels $1000
Lightweight crank $1600
Pistons $440
Rods $700
Cam,lifters etc $850
Cylinderhead $3000 more or less with the add ons

Total $7650
Sounds like a hoot-when do we start :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

At that power level you need race cases. Furthermore you need carbs and exhaust. Say $1,000 for exhaust and $400 for carbs, add a few hundred $$ for dyno tuning and you are there!

With your above schedule why not make it easy on yourself and go for the Steve Maney 1,007cc kit; there' no replacement for displacement. Furthermore, I don't think the costs will be much different and you get more power and torque with a lot less strain. His kit is nearly a bolt together. You could have Steve or a select few on this list build it and drop it right into your Commando.
 
AlColombia said:
Alloy barrels $1000
Lightweight crank $1600
Pistons $440
Rods $700
Cam,lifters etc $850
Cylinderhead $3000 more or less with the add ons

Total $7650
Click to expand...

Drouin Blower. About $2500.00 fitted with Lectron Carb.
 
Al Colombia, I have started a build along the lines of what you are talking about.
I am starting with a set of standard cases to iron the bugs out of the set up , although plan to use a set of these in the future, they are designed around a MK 111 crankshaft.
The guy who designed these already tried many diferent cases and ended up with this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlRAM9Ziysk

He is getting 85bhp (or so I am told) and is one of the quickest Nortons in New Zealand and Australia.
Sure it is a race motor, although no reason to use it as a hot street bike
My plan is a work in progress, currently JS motorsport internals moving forward to these cases and a Full auto head
Regards Mike
 
Brooking 850 said:
Al Colombia, I have started a build along the lines of what you are talking about.
I am starting with a set of standard cases to iron the bugs out of the set up , although plan to use a set of these in the future, they are designed around a MK 111 crankshaft.
The guy who designed these already tried many diferent cases and ended up with this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlRAM9Ziysk

He is getting 85bhp (or so I am told) and is one of the quickest Nortons in New Zealand and Australia.
Sure it is a race motor, although no reason to use it as a hot street bike
My plan is a work in progress, currently JS motorsport internals moving forward to these cases and a Full auto head
Regards Mike
Click to expand...
Fan-damn-tastic! Nice to know I`m not the only dreamer.Boy what a classy project-let me check my wallet-If it can be done I`m in!!!
Al
 
With one of these 1 007 engines , destroked to 750 , down from 92 ? to 69 , 7200 'd be 9600 redline . On the same piston speed . :D
 
My pavement hobby when solo is comparing notes with the fastest riders I can into riding short of crashing mistakes. A factory isolastic upper 40's hp Combat can keep up power wise in 1st and 2nd with any thing to about 80 mph and can run up to 120 in opens so can catch back up in a mile with super bikes as they slow for the turns, which a factory iso can almost take as fast. A 70 hp Combat can keep up power wise too 110-115 in 3rd and over 130 in opens, which is usually faster than anyone willing to press it unless WILD Squids just over 140, but thats only a few mph faster so can't get out of striking range when next set of turns appears. I don't try to race with a stock Combat and it really strains it to stay near pack of hot shots nice varied opens and sweepers. My Tri-linked Peel didn't not have to slow for turns so her about 70 hp on <360 lb inertia was unapproachable if any leaning conditions at all. One fairly common occurance was a group of hot shots hesitating at some hyw intersection and I'd ease on around knowing which way I was takening, then about mid way though my lazy 1st gear, I'd see or hear them hitting rev' limiters Huybrusa's R!'s Gxier's you name if but Peel was on cam by then and leaped faster into the bottle neck to turn w/o them ever gaining any ground and usually loosing a good bit by time 90 reached. It feels good to be able to just grab throttle and out horse power some one in a long straight, but if that someone just whipped you tires off so bad in a couple easy turns so it took ya that long to catch up, its then obvious the better handling biker was already feeling really good and for more time.
I know what is out there and what a vintage is up against so working up life time hobby to deliver surprises.


Basic race equation is torque gives the G level of pull while hp carries that pull to some top out speed. LIghtness is Rightness. Work the turns to relax in opens.
Never out ride bike into fright states only predicable thrill states.
Drouin impellers non linearly rase boost till over 8000 grand then efficiency falls off its curde shaped blades and impeller at risk to fracture. Still a short stroke'rs breathing would be out of sight nearing 9000 rpm. The street side boost issue on pump gas is detonation. There are calculator that predict CR and boost levels per octane rating to keep full max pressure ignition timing. Most boosted applications lower CR for pump gas. Centrifugal "blowers" can spike above rated PSI by sharpness of throttle snap to load the blades. Calc's imply Peel could see over 17 CR @ 7000 and minimum of 112 octane.

A Down and Dirty 850. Factory cases, steel flywheel crank, JMS 10.5 CR rods/pistons, lightened factory valve train with a 2S or more aggressive cam, fit a small-ish port head but with big valves and skinny stems. Big-est single or dual carbs you can fit even if bogs some down low, so what that's what ya want a bit of in parking lots but that ain't how its operated for sport you are rev'ing up for clutch drops or already rev'd up on the fly so no restriction feeding it. The big carb neck down effect can make a nice improvement the faster ya go.
Get of make a 2-1 exhaust and play with the baffle back pressure amounts till wakes TF up.

Belt drive and plastic primary cover and what ever else like center stand and steel items replaced with Al, about all the spacers everywhere and tin wear. Then search up Watt's like Helm's Joint linkage to see what my tool of choice is for using all the power on tap. If I see a steering damper or chicken stripes on balloon tires my heart falls as not worthy opponent to risk their life and limb with.
 
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