Help on frame ID

DogT said:

rightstickshift,

If you have or can get some pics of the later 69/70 rear guard mounting, I would appreciate it. My early rear guard is in bad shape, the blue one and it has a lot of bondo on it, the other one is in fairly good shape and if I could put it on my bike with the later mounting, it would be easier to get the later rear guard chromed. I'm not sure what parts I need to get the later guard on, mine mounts between the shock tops. Then I need to get the parts to mount it, which from what I've seen is a plate that attaches to the frame down by the horn, below the battery tray?

I have a friend not too far away, I need to go and see what his mounting is like, it's after mine.

Dave
69S

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Dave - I am rebuilding my 1970 Roadster - and must admit that up till now I thought the "S" and the Roadster were identical apart from the exhausts. If it helps, my rear mudguard is the same as the chrome one you showed in your photo (one on the right). It attaches in three places: 1) - at the rear of the seat frame loop - using a "U" type bracket that also conects to the rear light fairing 2) using the saddle type bracket which bolts to the bulkhead on the frame behind the battery and the 3) (which I think you are asking about) to the two bolts which come from the back of the battery tray and which also hold in the place the doubled horn bracket.

The parts book for the 69/70 models is mute in this area (and a number of others!) but the two bolts are 1/4" UNF by 1" long. They start at the small bracket welded to the back of the battery tray - pass through the horn brackets and then go on to pass through the rear mudguard followed by a small aluminium plate and are finally all held together by nyloc nuts. There is quite a collection of plain washers, star washers, plain nuts and nyloc nuts there - if it helps I could trawl through my shed and try to photgraph them for you.

Let me know if this is what you wanted to know - and if it helps I will go and find them - however it is sub zero outside at present and threatening to snow - so "I might be a while"!!

All the best, Mark

Thanks Mark,

No don't worry about any pic, I've figured it out. My friends 133061, Jun 69 was undoubtedly an S model and he has the rear guard like yours with the bracket off the web. Mine is 132031, Apr 69. So sometime in between there they switched the rear guard and mounts. Mine only mounts with 2 bolts off the bracket between the shock tops and only the centre bolt from the horn bracket like you describe, with plenty of nuts and washers with the bolt coming from the front. My guard also reaches down a bit farther than the new one.

Although my rear guard is the only one I've ever seen mounted like that. Right now I'm using a chromed 71 guard, but it's missing the notch for the pump and I had to drill 2 holes in it for the bracket between the shocks, plus it's flat on the top, not round like my old one.

I'm thinking I'll get my old guard repaired and chromed at some point, if it's not too dear, since I've got all the parts.

Dave
69S

OK Dave, glad you've got it sorted.

Trying to fathom these early bikes, with the lack of detail in the parts book, is sometimes a bit like doing archeology: trying to piece together the small bits you have to make a complete story.

Good luck with it

Cheers, Mark

I was lucky, mine came complete in 72 and I kept all the parts. However, I always thought the Dunstall valve covers were standard, I'd never seen any others until later. That 68 spares book leaves a bit to the imagination, and I've found some mistakes.

Dave
69S

Well back on the nett now that the kids used all the internet over the holiday break. Just made a few inquiries at a bike shop in my local town that deals in Norton bits and pieces he has offered a straight swap for a latter frame with yokes to suit and he wants the front end as well and willing to exchange stock parts as well. is this a good idea.

kiwi46 said:

Well back on the nett now that the kids used all the internet over the holiday break. Just made a few inquiries at a bike shop in my local town that deals in Norton bits and pieces he has offered a straight swap for a latter frame with yokes to suit and he wants the front end as well and willing to exchange stock parts as well. is this a good idea.

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More than likely not, if you do swap make sure he guarantees he will swap you any different parts you may need

some people get it easy! ive got the same problem up here in duners, a matching numbers 73 750 that has an early frame fitted. i had to find one on tm, which wasnt easy as my idea of a bent frame seems to be a bit more fussy :!: . anyway i hope to see ya and the bike at this years burt eh

NO.
No,
NO.

Maybe just the Frame , perhaps . On rarity Value the single top tube ones somewhat of a RARITY .
If The NUMBERS match . NO .

The 73 on frame has inner shock mounts ( rear ) with the Inners extended aft , in a gusset . This is the 28 Deg. frame .

Id tend to stick with the Early Type triple Clamps .

Read Just the other day , The yokes for THAT frame give 1/2 in more Trail ( 73 on )
than the similar looking ' 750 ' ones .
Youres probably match or better the Trail of the 850 / 73 on ones .

ALSO , the ' History ' of the parts is necessary .Some Turkeys who said to her they were mates of mine sold a bird a pile
of worn out Bonneville Parts to Her as ' a Bonneville ' . I said " Give them Back , Theyre Useless " . A thorough inspection
beforehand is rather adviseable .

http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Broch ... ochure.pdf
ORIGINAL Commando ( Had this brochure aeons ago )
Yours should bear more than a passing resemblance to THIS , particularly the Fork Crowns / Headlight mounts .
For Gaitered forks , to me , these ears are preferable , and go with your existing triple clamps . :mrgreen:

The single tube frames , if they crack , seem to Behind the Front Gusset .& maybe the down tubes , up high .
Inspect the thing thorougly thereabouts . If it were mint , Id keep it .

Just my 10 cents worth , Once its gone , its gone .

EDIT : " Why , Jut Today " so HERE it is , Thanks L.A.B. ,

Well a bit of food for thought over a nice cool Speights. Thanks for the advice guys just need to make a move but will let you all know before i do anything extreme and if i sell anything will let you all know thanks.

kiwi46,

If you ever want to move on the handlebars...Please give me a shout. I've been turning the inet upside down and giving it a good shake, to see if I could find a set for my bike.

Cheers,

Steve

Hi just looked at Matts last message and clicked on the link and the head headlight looks the same with a amp meter and a small light to the left of it and a switch just under the amp meter is this correct for my bike a well ?.

That's the 69/70 headlamp shell arrangement. Maybe you could find a brochure on your model or someone may know.

Dave
69S

kiwi46 said:

Hi just looked at Matts last message and clicked on the link and the head headlight looks the same with a amp meter and a small light to the left of it and a switch just under the amp meter is this correct for my bike a well ?.

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Correct for which part of your bike, the '69-'70 part, or the '71 part?

If '69-'70 then - yes, if '71 then - no.

Hi if i join the NZ Norton owners club can I find out some history of my bike from when it was built ?, could this explain the frame and the rest of the bike ?.

kiwi46 said:

Hi if i join the NZ Norton owners club can I find out some history of my bike from when it was built ?

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Does the NZ NOC have access to the original factory records? I thought only the UK NOC and VMCC had that information.

kiwi46 said:

could this explain the frame and the rest of the bike ?.

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It's unlikely the bike left the factory like that. It's almost certainly been rebuilt using a '69 frame and front end - probably due to the bike suffereing a heavy frontal impact at some point in its past and the '71 frame plate was fitted to the '69 frame.

Hi L.A.B if the NZ NOC doesn't have access or an affiliation to the UK NOC is there an other way?. Thanks Jeff.

kiwi46 said:

if the NZ NOC doesn't have access or an affiliation to the UK NOC is there an other way?.

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Not that I'm aware of, at least not for a Commando built during that early period (Andover Norton has some late records).

The surviving Norton factory records are now in the possession of the VMCC. The UK NOC also has access to the records, so an e-mail to the relevant sections of the VMCC or UK NOC may get you some answers (there may be a charge?) but it's only likely to be fairly basic information such as the dispatch date and perhaps model type, colour etc.- if you are lucky.
I suggest you try the VMCC first as they have full time staff.
http://www.vmcc.net/library.htm
http://www.nortonownersclub.org/records-dating

Just seen this thread - I would say early 71 is right. A friend of mine had a 71 reg with this frame/yoke/engine combination and I still have the botton of his frame as an engine/gearbox stand after it was written off. I think the frame change over was phased in over different models in 1971 and the roadster still used this frame as it used the square oil tank so as to use up the old stock.

myjota said:

Just seen this thread - I would say early 71 is right. A friend of mine had a 71 reg with this frame/yoke/engine combination and I still have the botton of his frame as an engine/gearbox stand after it was written off. I think the frame change over was phased in over different models in 1971 and the roadster still used this frame as it used the square oil tank so as to use up the old stock.

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If it was an early '71 serial number then I would tend to agree, however serial 146666 April '71 is considerably further on than 141783 when these changes were supposed to have occurred. It was also a period when they were producing only two main models, Roadster and Fastback.

Please keep the opinions coming. I still tend to favor L.A.Bs idea but am for ever hopeful its correct.