Genuine

MikeM · Dec 18, 2011

I work for Chevrolet Parts. GM has a program called Restoration Parts. These are parts made by companies licensed by GM. They are provided the specs and prints from GM to reproduce items such as emblems, sheet metal etc. They are licensed only after they pass all the requirements for specs as provided by General Motors. These items are usually more expensive than the reproduction knock offs but fit better due to being made to factory specs. Hopefully the Andover items are the same. I for one am glad that its relatively easy so far to find the parts that I need. There is a local shop that has had virtually everything in the first stage of my project. Hopefully parts will be available for a long time to come.
MikeM

rvich · Dec 18, 2011

I believe that as a community we have a responsibility to preserve our own environment. As Norton enthusiasts this means we want to ensure a healthy supply of parts. I see two areas where we should be on guard.

The first is that there are original parts that will end up in the bin in the present atmosphere of breaking old bikes for profit. I do not know how some of the sellers on Ebay can keep such a constant stream of used parts up. I don't know where they find their bikes but some of these guys are breaking a fair number of Commandos per year. Bits that don't sell will eventually migrate towards the bin. I recently got quotes on getting my foot brackets, brake pedal, kick start lever and shifting lever rechromed. The cost was high enough that I could buy brand new parts from Old Britts for less. It can be argued as to whether they are genuine or not but they are not original. I don't know how one stops this, but being aware of it is a start. I am a cheap bastard by nature and don't want to see basket case bikes selling for large amounts of money, but I would rather see them stay in one piece until there is not an alternative. I hope that these unsold parts are being put away for a day when they may fetch a better price but I fear they are not.

The second problem that I see is that as more and more after market parts creep on to these bikes, it makes it harder for those of us with less experience to know what is "real". We should as a group want to see the highest quality parts available used on any of these bikes. It actually means we need to be prepared to spend a little more on our hobby. I think the long term gain is worth it. Ultimately the dollars we spend now will decide whether or not we have a stream of parts in the future.

Russ

john robert bould · Dec 18, 2011

Rvich,
I dont want to be some "old Fart" moaning on and on about suppliers, I just want to be the old fart that may just cause a ripple,and make aware to "Our" buddies here on this forum the fact that some replacement parts are sub-standard and not fit for replacement.
If this upsets some dealers ...tough :!:

Carbonfibre · Dec 18, 2011

Buyers simply wont pay more for top quality parts, so I guess the suppliers are in the main providing exactly what their customers want?

79x100 · Dec 18, 2011

Carbonfibre said:
Buyers simply wont pay more for top quality parts, so I guess the suppliers are in the main providing exactly what their customers want?

With respect, most suppliers don't give us the choice. Unfortunately, it is uncommon to find one who will offer alternatives with an honest explanation of the differences. Their mark-ups are probably higher in real as well as percentage terms on the rubbish.

I have never knowingly bought an inferior part 'because it was cheaper' which is not to say that I have limitless funds and would be able to instal a race-blueprinted motor with all the special parts, even if I wanted to.

Who on here would knowingly buy second-rate rods, bolts or pistons ? Who has ever been offered the choice ? I'd suspect that only those building bikes for sale or traders wishing to maximise their profits on engine work knowingly use anything less than the best.

What I won't necessarily do is spend large amounts improving an original component that I consider to function satisfactorily. I've imported Ferodo Platinum pads from Vintage Brake because they are only available via that source but you may well consider me a cheapskate because I haven't fitted a modern front end with six-pot calipers. That is a different case entirely in my opinion.

Brithit · Dec 18, 2011

Carbonfibre said:
Buyers simply wont pay more for top quality parts, so I guess the suppliers are in the main providing exactly what their customers want?

I don't think that's true at all. Most suppliers that I deal with are very upfront about the source of something. They will tell you if it's from Andover, or one of the other suppliers like Fair Spares, or let you know they have lower priced alternatives from Emgo, Taiwan, whatever. I actually replaced some cheap crap parts - lights, switches, etc, when the better stuff was available - or could be found. Usually just toss the inferior crap when done with it, because there isn't much market for it. I'm like others here, I don't have unlimited funds for this stuff, and want to make every dollar count. Don't want to buy things twice, but sometimes I buy what's available to get something going, and see what I can turn up later. Man, compared to some of the stuff I was looking for (and couldn't find) in the late 80's, these are good times indeed.

DogT · Dec 18, 2011

I asked DomiRacer about their $40 fuel caps, if I would be satisfied with it as far as a good looking replacement and the sales guy admitted that I probably wouldn't be happy with it for a good restoration. Most of the people I deal with seem to be pretty straight up unless they just don't know. There's a guy in Chicago I wouldn't deal with and his initials are Marshall Hagey. You can look him up.

All the parts I have bought have been fine so far.

Dave
69S

Fullauto · Dec 18, 2011

Carbonfibre said:
Fullauto said:

john robert bould said:

With all due respect to the forum members, But you lads dont see the big picture here, obtaining the odd item once in a blue moon is not a true reflection of the aftermarket state.
I worked for a local fork restorer called FITFORX, the business was set up approx 15 years ago.
Fitforx recondictioned forks for its main core business , and up to 10 sets each week. that's 500 per year.... not one in 10 years!
Every thing was going well up to a few years ago, then some parts bought in failed to fit correctly,bush's where either to small or to big,stanchions had poor and tight threads,topnuts would not fit etc,etc.
The situation got no better and after a time FITFORX deceided to close the doors., .this is the real results of crappy far eastern parts.
THATS THE BIG REAL WORLD

Click to expand...

Yep, and then someone else takes up the slack. If there's a demand, then supply will follow.

Click to expand...

I dont think you quite get it. John was suggesting the business closed due to them not being able to source the parts they needed at a reasonable cost. If it was not possible for a business which had been running for 15 years to find a suitable parts supplier, then someone new to this is going to find it even more difficult. Bearing in mind the present state of the economy, parts being produced in the far east and eastern europe for instance, either get more costly or are made more cheaply. This has the knock on effect of customers either having to pay higher prices, or being sold lower quality parts.

Nope, I don't think you quite get it. It's called "supply and demand". Look it up. If there's a demand for something better, then someone will make it. That's why you can now build a Commando out of brand new parts. Norton owners are now better off, parts wise, than EVER before.

Carbonfibre · Dec 19, 2011

Ok if you had just taken over a business that had failed due to non availability of the parts required to recondition front forks, would you buy the tools and equipment needed to make the parts yourself, or pay a lot more to get usable items, which would mean the business was no longer commercially viable?

In the first instance you are going to be looking at a considerable investment in tooling, renting or buying factory premises, and will still be in a position where some parts of the manufacturing process cannot be done in house (chroming for instance).

If you choose to pay for top quality parts then the business is no longer viable, which is ably demonstrated by just how popular poor quality pattern Norton parts are, simply due to the fact that they are a little cheaper than much better ones!

rvich · Dec 19, 2011

Does this thread have a point? As in are "we" attacking something in particular? Or is it just another thread for some people to vent their continual anger and mistrust? I can't for the life of me understand why people would persist in a hobby that causes them so much chafing, but I have come to realize that most people judge the motives of others by their own. People who think everyone is out to rip them off, do so because that is what they would do.

Russ

john robert bould · Dec 19, 2011

rvich said:
Does this thread have a point? As in are "we" attacking something in particular? Or is it just another thread for some people to vent their continual anger and mistrust? I can't for the life of me understand why people would persist in a hobby that causes them so much chafing, but I have come to realize that most people judge the motives of others by their own. People who think everyone is out to rip them off, do so because that is what they would do.

Russ

Hi Russ,
I agree "we" do wonder.
I am pleased with all the responce's regarding the Bigend bolts etc...I would be only buying from Andover . Mick Hemmings or Maney after reading about the "bar turned" bolts!

79x100 · Dec 19, 2011

One of 'Us' doesn't actually seem to own or run a Norton so the quality and / or cost of parts is actually immaterial to him.

He seems however to rattle his own perch, and 'our' cage while he's at it. To what end, I'm not really sure. :roll:

jeffdavison · Dec 19, 2011

I think the approprite and accepted name for one who's main forum activity that is just that, is called a "troll"

JD

79x100 said:
One of 'Us' doesn't actually seem to own or run a Norton so the quality and / or cost of parts is actually immaterial to him.

He seems however to rattle his own perch, and 'our' cage while he's at it. To what end, I'm not really sure. :roll:

Fullauto · Dec 19, 2011

Yes, I get the distinct impression that he doesn't understand the joy of Norton ownership. And any attempt to get some sort of answer based on experience rather than theory comes to nought.

Carbonfibre · Dec 19, 2011

jeffdavison said:
I think the approprite and accepted name for one who's main forum activity that is just that, is called a "troll"

JD

79x100 said:

One of 'Us' doesn't actually seem to own or run a Norton so the quality and / or cost of parts is actually immaterial to him.

He seems however to rattle his own perch, and 'our' cage while he's at it. To what end, I'm not really sure. :roll:

Click to expand...

If you are all happy to pay top dollar for crap, then thats up to you entirely.............maybe if buyers were a little more aware of the fact that an awful lot of parts made for old bikes are very poor then maybe they would improve a bit?

rpatton · Dec 19, 2011

I think the problem with a lot of niche items out there is that they fall into a manufacturing no man's land of 'low volume mass production'. It's not an oxymoron but it does seem to be hard to pull off. I can think of a few ways to do it but they all cost money. Would you pay double for a good fender? Is that the same as asking if you'd take two bad ones for the price of one good one?

jeffdavison · Dec 19, 2011

Boy oh boy, I'd hate to live my life on assumptions. Too many do and don't even try to ask for facts....... pity. Makes passing judgment waaay to easy, and when given, it's never taken seriously by those who know the truth as they can see the games as they're played.

JD

Carbonfibre said:
jeffdavison said:

I think the approprite and accepted name for one who's main forum activity that is just that, is called a "troll"

JD

79x100 said:

One of 'Us' doesn't actually seem to own or run a Norton so the quality and / or cost of parts is actually immaterial to him.

He seems however to rattle his own perch, and 'our' cage while he's at it. To what end, I'm not really sure. :roll:

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

If you are all happy to pay top dollar for crap, then thats up to you entirely.............maybe if buyers were a little more aware of the fact that an awful lot of parts made for old bikes are very poor then maybe they would improve a bit?

Carbonfibre · Dec 20, 2011

jeffdavison said:
Boy oh boy, I'd hate to live my life on assumptions. Too many do and don't even try to ask for facts....... pity. Makes passing judgment waaay to easy, and when given, it's never taken seriously by those who know the truth as they can see the games as they're played.

JD

Fact is a fair number of parts for old bikes are rubbish, simply due to them being made in low volumes, and dealers being very greedy for maximum profits!

splatt · Dec 20, 2011

Fact is a fair number of parts for old bikes are rubbish, simply due to them being made in low volumes, and dealers being very greedy for maximum profits![/quote]

Some,not all were rubbish when they were new, even geniune rubbish is still rubbish,dealers and on sellers will be making more than the manufacturer.There is some nice low volume gear out there that even at the prices people are still buying.

Fullauto · Dec 20, 2011

Carbonfibre said:
Ok if you had just taken over a business that had failed due to non availability of the parts required to recondition front forks, would you buy the tools and equipment needed to make the parts yourself, or pay a lot more to get usable items, which would mean the business was no longer commercially viable?

In the first instance you are going to be looking at a considerable investment in tooling, renting or buying factory premises, and will still be in a position where some parts of the manufacturing process cannot be done in house (chroming for instance).

If you choose to pay for top quality parts then the business is no longer viable, which is ably demonstrated by just how popular poor quality pattern Norton parts are, simply due to the fact that they are a little cheaper than much better ones!

First, why would I buy such a business?

You say that this business has gone broke trying to supply forks to a buying public and it's just not viable, and then you go on to trumpet the success of Maxton who have been doing it for years. Let's face it, each and every business decision is, or at least should be, based on economic reality. Any business not based on economic reality is doomed to fail.

If what you say is true, why haven't Maxton gone guts up?

Your constant and consistent statements that basically all spares for old bikes are crap and overpriced are quite simply not true. maybe if you owned a Norton, rode it and bought spares for it you would change your mind.

I don't see that happening in a hurry however.

Genuine

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