Genuine

Status
Not open for further replies.
"ORIGINAL" can ONLY mean what was on the bike when it left the factory.

"OEM replacement part" is what the factories originally produced as spares while Norton was still in business.

"NOS" (New Original Stock/Spares) are leftover OEM bits; they're what is getting harder and harder to find, and easier to fake.

After that, anything goes, apparently.
 
grandpaul said:
"ORIGINAL" can ONLY mean what was on the bike when it left the factory.

"OEM replacement part" is what the factories originally produced as spares while Norton was still in business.

"NOS" (New Original Stock/Spares) are leftover OEM bits; they're what is getting harder and harder to find, and easier to fake.

After that, anything goes, apparently.
Click to expand...

Best answer yet.
 
jeffdavison said:
a few months ago I bought a new front fender. a "Genuine" Andover part from a well known supplier. It was perfectly shipped and perfectly wrapped.

JD
Click to expand...

I'd like to hear which supplier it was.
 
Andover-Norton was the source of the part and I mostly buy from Old Britts. Ella and Fred are good people to work with and they bend over backwards to keep their customers happy. But in the two cases mentioned, they could only relay what the "manufacturer" told them.

JD

swooshdave said:
jeffdavison said:
a few months ago I bought a new front fender. a "Genuine" Andover part from a well known supplier. It was perfectly shipped and perfectly wrapped.

JD
Click to expand...

I'd like to hear which supplier it was.
Click to expand...
 
I've had nothing but EXCELLENT service from Old Brits, for many years.

I don't recall geting any parts from them (other than Barnett cables & clutch plates) that weren't all in sealed Andover Norton packets.

I've personally never had a single issue with ANY part from them, although I've never bought fenders.
 
While on the subject of fender[Mudguards here] Many years ago i was restoring a vincent , I needed a pair of stainless fenders to finnish the job.
After many,many months of waiting the Owners club got some, They where made on the original gear in Birmingham, the curve was miles out and the form was twisted.
I returned the items to a un-surprised seller, Poor man had to make a choice... sell crap or none ...I think he wished he had gone for none. I have no doubt Joe at Andover would like and strives for "best" quaility, but if supplers are under-quoting to get the orders ,which is common..then just good enough is what we may be getting.
 
beng said:
....The more years that go by, the more people there are buying these bikes that don't have a clue about them other than they "look neat" or they are trendy and will be nice to sit on at "bike night" at some nearby parking lot.

It is a personal decision to get into vintage motorcycles, those who think it is fun riding a machine that needs constant care and adjustment and cash infusions are all set, those who do not know the above going in may quickly be turning their "investment" over and moving on with other things.
Click to expand...

Interesting points beng. I'd just qualify them by saying that a good number of the people who bought Commandos new in the 1970s didn't know much about them either. Perhaps there was indeed a period when they were 'enthusiast only' machines. I don't think that it would be true to say that all motorcyclists during the 'golden age' were skilled engineers.

We used to laugh with the fact that the Commando won the MCN 'Machine of the Year' prize five years in a row. ..All it proved was that the bike was popular with fifteen-year-old would be motorcyclists...or at least those amongst them who could read and write...Some of us went on to buy one.

I'm certainly not an engineer, and I also never made a decision to get involved with 'vintage motorcycles' - the machine simply got older with me and what was once the newest second-hand bike that I could afford has somewhere along the line become a 'collector's item' :roll:

There is a middle way which is recognising which jobs need farming out and which can be safely attempted. I find the costs of the hobby to be reasonable when compared with what I'd have lost in depreciation if I'd tried to run newish bikes over the last thirty-odd years.
 
The fender question: To say I am surprised is an understatement. I know Fred and Ella of Old Brits personally and they are one of the few dealers I know who insist on supplying the "real deal". So I can be 100% sure it was one of our mudguards.

The mudguard supplier is, to the best of my knowledge, still the very source that Norton used in production times. He uses special press tools to do the lips. Our press tools.

The mudguards I have in my shop (I do run a shop for Norton spares in Germany, as you may know) I have no issues with. Normally, I'd suspect the mudguard was an Indian one (see our "pirate parts" page), but in the Old Brits case I simply do not believe that. If possible, send me pictures to my e-mail address norton@nortonmotors.com.

The steering damper I can't comment on, the last one I fitted was to our racebike several summers ago. I haven't fitted one to a road bike for years. Had no need, we (son, friends, I myself) run our Commandos with Andover Norton's own headsteadies.

Joe S.
 
Weird that people with old bikes dont seem to grasp the fact that those making replacement parts do this to make money, and the cheaper the part is to make the higher the profit margin!
 
I'm not complaining about Old Brits at all. THEY are excellent and stand up people. They are my first "go to" choice. Just that the new genuine parts imho weren't quite up to being the best of the best as I would have otherwise expected... Old Britts were more than willing to take them back, decided to keep them as the alternative parts were probably not that good and I would rather have parts that had a stonger tie to the original than the other patterns out there. I just accepted and dealt with what I got and decided to live with my choices. The front mud guard was a genuine part as that is what Old Britts offers. I am confidnet no substitution was made. Ella opened up her on hand inventory and checked the parts she had and she said they all had the same tooling marks. I'll send a pic or two off to ZFD in hi res so he can see what I am talking about.

JD

grandpaul said:
I've had nothing but EXCELLENT service from Old Brits, for many years.

I don't recall geting any parts from them (other than Barnett cables & clutch plates) that weren't all in sealed Andover Norton packets.

I've personally never had a single issue with ANY part from them, although I've never bought fenders.
Click to expand...
 
Carbonfibre said:
Weird that people with old bikes dont seem to grasp the fact that those making replacement parts do this to make money, and the cheaper the part is to make the higher the profit margin!
Click to expand...

Cynical critter, aren't you? I don't believe this to be true in the majority of cases. If you think people are getting rich supplying Norton parts then good luck with your fuel tank project.

Put it this way. If you compare spare part prices for Nortons and then look at the direct equivalent in ANY modern bike (exclude maybe Royal Enfield and Ural) then you'll find Norton parts about 300% underpriced for what you get.
 
Well I am very happy Andover and some of the other suppliers, I won't list my preferences but I would have highlight people that go to all the trouble to reproduce a casting or part to that in the not to distant future are going to ensure enthusiasts, future and ourselves included can still run these bikes. I might be looking through rose coloured glasses here, just went for a short run in spin on my 850 yesterday after nearly a year of the bike being laid up. And my god I love riding the old girl when she is percolating nicely. Okay so I took her home and pulled the front forks apart to install some new damper parts made by a member on this site. But back to the point, Joe and all the other passionate suppliers mean that we do indeed own a motor cycle that can be enjoyed 40 years on from production.
People with modern bikes are amazed that it is possible to obtain parts for a classic, probably a wider range than they will ever have access to on their modern, current machine?

One other person posted about the term genuine in relation to being a true collector,as opposed to a enthusiast (rider) and I would assemble most Commando people in the latter. That is probably why I have owned and Triumph's and now a Norton, parts are plentiful. Yes it would be nice to have a super special rare bike in the garage, but if I can't obtain and or make parts, I could not ride it. So it would not suit me!

Hope I made some sense? And thank you to the good suppliers out there!

Cheers Richard
 
Fullauto said:
Carbonfibre said:
Weird that people with old bikes dont seem to grasp the fact that those making replacement parts do this to make money, and the cheaper the part is to make the higher the profit margin!
Click to expand...

Cynical critter, aren't you? I don't believe this to be true in the majority of cases. If you think people are getting rich supplying Norton parts then good luck with your fuel tank project.

Put it this way. If you compare spare part prices for Nortons and then look at the direct equivalent in ANY modern bike (exclude maybe Royal Enfield and Ural) then you'll find Norton parts about 300% underpriced for what you get.
Click to expand...

I dont know if you will find that many sellers of spare parts who do this for love, and like it or not as most are probably sourcing a fair amount of what they sell from the far east or eastern europe, they dont have a great deal of control of the quality of the parts they are selling anyway (and bearing in mind things like dodgy big end bolts, dont care much in any case!)
 
Carbonfibre said:
Fullauto said:
Carbonfibre said:
Weird that people with old bikes dont seem to grasp the fact that those making replacement parts do this to make money, and the cheaper the part is to make the higher the profit margin!
Click to expand...

Cynical critter, aren't you? I don't believe this to be true in the majority of cases. If you think people are getting rich supplying Norton parts then good luck with your fuel tank project.

Put it this way. If you compare spare part prices for Nortons and then look at the direct equivalent in ANY modern bike (exclude maybe Royal Enfield and Ural) then you'll find Norton parts about 300% underpriced for what you get.
Click to expand...

I dont know if you will find that many sellers of spare parts who do this for love, and like it or not as most are probably sourcing a fair amount of what they sell from the far east or eastern europe, they dont have a great deal of control of the quality of the parts they are selling anyway (and bearing in mind things like dodgy big end bolts, dont care much in any case!)
Click to expand...

I think the operative words in your reply are "I don't know..................." which is correct. Go and meet these people and see how many have Maseratis in their car park. Most, if not all of these people have started out as enthusiasts for the marque and then opened a business to do for a living what they love. If you know nothing about, and do not care about Nortons, then why would you be involved in the business? To make money? I very much doubt it. You'd be better off flogging overpriced and useless chrome bits for h@##ey d#%^dsons. That's where the money is.

Certain members of the Norton wholesale/retail community may indeed source their stuff from where you say. However, others wouldn't just on principle.

Like me.

Quality control is fairly straightforward. If it's crap, don't buy it. People are not going to make stuff badly if the end user refuses to buy it.
 
With all due respect to the forum members, But you lads dont see the big picture here, obtaining the odd item once in a blue moon is not a true reflection of the aftermarket state.
I worked for a local fork restorer called FITFORX, the business was set up approx 15 years ago.
Fitforx recondictioned forks for its main core business , and up to 10 sets each week. that's 500 per year.... not one in 10 years!
Every thing was going well up to a few years ago, then some parts bought in failed to fit correctly,bush's where either to small or to big,stanchions had poor and tight threads,topnuts would not fit etc,etc.
The situation got no better and after a time FITFORX deceided to close the doors., .this is the real results of crappy far eastern parts.
THATS THE BIG REAL WORLD
 
Thats pretty much spot on John. Its very very difficult for anyone to source well made low volume parts, at a cost which means re-sale is viable, notwithstanding what car they might have parked outside!
 
Carbonfibre said:
Weird that people with old bikes dont seem to grasp the fact that those making replacement parts do this to make money, and the cheaper the part is to make the higher the profit margin!
Click to expand...
Carbonfibre,
You don't know who you are talking about. Ask any of my customers or employees, or look at my track record in the last 35 years I was professionally involved with Norton motorcycles.

Making money is good and indeed necessary to maintain and expand the service Andover Norton provides, but profit is not my primary motivation. I drive a van, not a Maserati, I go to work every morning and sell Norton (and Triumph) parts every working day in my German shop. I don't have funds in the Cayman Islands, a yacht, an aeroplane, or my own island. I have most of my money sitting in spare parts form in Hungerford/England and Gilching/Germany, and in my collection of Norton motorcycles, most of which I ride regularly (the 1915 Norton is an exception!). I don't do what I do to be rich, but to enjoy what I am doing. And I want to sleep soundly, with a good conscience. Sorry to disappoint you!

Joe Seifert/Andover Norton
 
john robert bould said:
With all due respect to the forum members, But you lads dont see the big picture here, obtaining the odd item once in a blue moon is not a true reflection of the aftermarket state.
I worked for a local fork restorer called FITFORX, the business was set up approx 15 years ago.
Fitforx recondictioned forks for its main core business , and up to 10 sets each week. that's 500 per year.... not one in 10 years!
Every thing was going well up to a few years ago, then some parts bought in failed to fit correctly,bush's where either to small or to big,stanchions had poor and tight threads,topnuts would not fit etc,etc.
The situation got no better and after a time FITFORX deceided to close the doors., .this is the real results of crappy far eastern parts.
THATS THE BIG REAL WORLD
Click to expand...

Yep, and then someone else takes up the slack. If there's a demand, then supply will follow.
 
Fullauto said:
john robert bould said:
With all due respect to the forum members, But you lads dont see the big picture here, obtaining the odd item once in a blue moon is not a true reflection of the aftermarket state.
I worked for a local fork restorer called FITFORX, the business was set up approx 15 years ago.
Fitforx recondictioned forks for its main core business , and up to 10 sets each week. that's 500 per year.... not one in 10 years!
Every thing was going well up to a few years ago, then some parts bought in failed to fit correctly,bush's where either to small or to big,stanchions had poor and tight threads,topnuts would not fit etc,etc.
The situation got no better and after a time FITFORX deceided to close the doors., .this is the real results of crappy far eastern parts.
THATS THE BIG REAL WORLD
Click to expand...

Yep, and then someone else takes up the slack. If there's a demand, then supply will follow.
Click to expand...


I dont think you quite get it. John was suggesting the business closed due to them not being able to source the parts they needed at a reasonable cost. If it was not possible for a business which had been running for 15 years to find a suitable parts supplier, then someone new to this is going to find it even more difficult. Bearing in mind the present state of the economy, parts being produced in the far east and eastern europe for instance, either get more costly or are made more cheaply. This has the knock on effect of customers either having to pay higher prices, or being sold lower quality parts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top