EV drawbacks

Fast Eddie said:
I think you’re right, but there needs to be some significant technological breakthroughs first.

For example, although many of us say and think that quick change standardised batteries are the way forward, the industry is going in the opposite direction. Because they are changing range, they are fitting bigger and bigger batteries. The battery carriers are now structural members of the chassis. Battery changes will be very big and expensive job on such cars ((think €15k or more).

You only have to look at the incredible number of distinctly mediocre EVs that have come to the market so quickly. It takes car companies a long time to design and launch an entirely new car, even an ICE. It’s very obvious that these current cars have been rushed to market, using no new real tech, but lots of big screens and ‘futuristic‘ styling to make customers think they’re high tech.

We need a breakthrough in battery technology. And charging technology.

And the massive challenge of charging infrastructure and core generation increase needs solving.

These are simply must do things if EVs are going to become the norm.
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Okay - so they build batteries into the structure of the vehicle.
Does that mean end of battery life means end of vehicle life? Doesn't sound very "green" to me.
"Oh! the battery won't hold charge any more sir. Let me show you our latest cars, starting at just $####, plus of course the disposal fee for your "old" vehicle.
"Yes, it is old sir - over 5 years is "old" these days."
 
robs ss said:
Okay - so they build batteries into the structure of the vehicle.
Does that mean end of battery life means end of vehicle life? Doesn't sound very "green" to me.
"Oh! the battery won't hold charge any more sir. Let me show you our latest cars, starting at just $####, plus of course the disposal fee for your "old" vehicle.
"Yes, it is old sir - over 5 years is "old" these days."
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The industry will of course argue this is not the case, that they are replaceable, recyclable and green. But think about it, how many people will be happy to stump up $15k plus when the salesman is offering a great deal with great credit on a nice new part exchange…

It’s part of the change in attitudes in design thats needed. Currently we are trying to apply EV design to 140 years of ICE design. Frankly in rather unimaginative ways (example: look how many EVs have the charge point in the unused fuel flap)!

We need designers to design a ground up EV solutions. Maybe part of that is that cars are not designed to last 20+ years and have 4 battery changes? Maybe they should only last 5-10 years (like other ‘modern’ electronics) and instead be made genuinely and fully recyclable ?
 
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SteveBorland said:
This very point was mentioned, together with a photo projected up on the screen taken in New York in (I think) 1910. Street was full of horses and carts, with one car visible.
The next slide was also in New York, in 1916 I think. Filled with cars, a single horse & cart visible.
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But that happened without a single external subsidy or ban on horses, in the UK the petrol car nearest version of a subsidy was the car owners clubs AA and RAC opening up petrol stations paid out of club funds. At the same time petrol was up against Steam and Electric cars and on a level playing field beat them hands down.
 
kommando said:
But that happened without a single external subsidy or ban on horses, in the UK the petrol car nearest version of a subsidy was the car owners clubs AA and RAC opening up petrol stations paid out of club funds. At the same time petrol was up against Steam and Electric cars and on a level playing field beat them hands down.
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I think you really hit the nail on the head here
If you are offered something better you'd take it
We are being forced into this
 
kommando said:
But that happened without a single external subsidy or ban on horses, in the UK the petrol car nearest version of a subsidy was the car owners clubs AA and RAC opening up petrol stations paid out of club funds. At the same time petrol was up against Steam and Electric cars and on a level playing field beat them hands down.
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Absolutely…

When EVs are an overall better choice that ICEs then ICEs will die naturally.

It’s that simple IMO.

So instead of spending massive amounts encouraging and forcing us to take up underdeveloped EVs, the govts of the world should be spending that on supporting genuine development of EV technology.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Absolutely…

When EVs are an overall better choice that ICEs then ICEs will die naturally.

It’s that simple IMO.

So instead of spending massive amounts encouraging and forcing us to take up underdeveloped EVs, the govts of the world should be spending that on supporting genuine development of EV technology.
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Similarly when public transport becomes viable maybe people could use it to get to work etc
But bus routes are being cut back
Electric buses don't have the range
20 mph zones are increasing pollution
I have commuted on a local road for 37 years it now has traffic calming measures each end,this causes standing traffic in front of a row of houses where once there were none
We have the ulez coming in August
This will cost people with older vehicles £12.50 a day or £25 if you are a shift worker
It's like saying we don't want you smoking unless you pay us £12.50 a day then it's fine
It does nothing to stop pollution
If they really want to stop pollution then just ban the cars that don't pass the emissions test
Ban electric cars that have been charged with electric generated from fossil burning power stations
Stop factories that emit smoke
Shut down all London airports etc etc then we can all be happy
 
Fast Eddie said:
The industry will of course argue this is not the case, that they are replaceable, recyclable and green. But think about it, how many people will be happy to stump up $15k plus when the salesman is offering a great deal with great credit on a nice new part exchange…

It’s part of the change in attitudes in design thats needed. Currently we are trying to apply EV design to 140 years of ICE design. Frankly in rather unimaginative ways (example: look how many EVs have the charge point in the unused fuel flap)!

We need designers to design a ground up EV solutions. Maybe part of that is that cars are not designed to last 20+ years and have 4 battery changes? Maybe they should only last 5-10 years (like other ‘modern’ electronics) and instead be made genuinely and fully recyclable ?
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Safe vehicles that perform well need quality parts, made from quality materials designed to PERFORM.

A plastic toy could be made, that would suck to ride in, shatter on impact, yet be recyclable. (At a BIG COST)

None of us want that.
 
Fast Eddie said:
...
And the massive challenge of charging infrastructure and core generation increase needs solving. This has become a strange issue in my mind, with sceptics shouting about it as though it means EVs are doomed and converts basically sweeping it under the carper saying ‘yeah we all know about that‘ and rolling their eyes with boredom ! But these really are must do things if EVs are going to become the norm.
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There have been numerous fact-based analyses regarding the national charging infrastructure required to go to 100% EV, (or even close), and the fact is, the requirements would be beyond astronomical, and require FAR more fossil fuels, nuclear, and "renewable" plants to handle peak loads, etc.

As it is the same greenies are whinging about ANY new power plants, so to then believe all the new generation capacity would be "renewable"/"green", would require MASSIVE (let it blow your mind) acreage to house these power generation fields. THERE GOES ALL THE GREEN SPACE AND FOREST YOU ARE TRYING TO PROTECT!
 
Fast Eddie said:
The industry will of course argue this is not the case, that they are replaceable, recyclable and green. But think about it, how many people will be happy to stump up $15k plus when the salesman is offering a great deal with great credit on a nice new part exchange…
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The worst part of this scheme is the unspoken evil - WE ALL PAY FOR THIS ABSURDITY (tax subsidies for EVs). Even if we are 100% dead set AGAINST the entire scheme.
 
Has anyone addressed the fact the fact that EV's are way heavier than a comparable ICE powered vehicle? This weight difference means the EV will require more energy per mile than the comparable ICE powered vehicle. That greater energy must come from somewhere......

Slick
 
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texasSlick said:
Has anyone addressed the fact the fact that EV's are way heavier than a comparable ICE powered vehicle? This weight difference means the EV will require more energy per mile than the comparable ICE powered vehicle. That greater energy must come from somewhere......
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...not to mention the additional weight's impact on roadways, bridges, etc. Like driving a much larger ICE vehicle, say a 1-ton truck.
 
Greenies are oblivious to the Laws of Thermodynamics .....

They seem to think you can get something for nothing .... First Law violator.
They do not realize that what you get has a cost surcharge .... Second Law
They live in a LA LA universe .... Third Law oblivion

Slick
 
texasSlick said:
Greenies are oblivious to the Laws of Thermodynamics .....

They seem to think you can get something for nothing .... First Law violator.
They do not realize that what you get has a cost surcharge .... Second Law
They live in a LA LA universe .... Third Law oblivion
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They also don't actually care about the HARM TO THE ENVIRONMENT. As long as it is not THEIR (local/national) environment. "NIMBY" on steroids. Lithium and Cobalt mined by minor miners with no PPE in third world countries? No worries!
 
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texasSlick said:
Greenies are oblivious to the Laws of Thermodynamics .....

They seem to think you can get something for nothing .... First Law violator.
They do not realize that what you get has a cost surcharge .... Second Law
They live in a LA LA universe .... Third Law oblivion

Slick
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Any time irrefutable FACTS are brought into the discussion, they are blunted with regurgitated rhetoric & buzz words, failing that, unwarranted anger & hostility.

Just say: "ohm's law"
discussion over.
 
concours said:
Any time irrefutable FACTS are brought into the discussion, they are blunted with regurgitated rhetoric & buzz words, failing that, unwarranted anger & hostility.

Just say: "ohm's law"
discussion over.
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"" ...... failing that, unwarranted anger & hostility," ......... AND NAME CALLING!

Slick
 
kommando said:
Its already been noticed that that extra weight increases brake dust etc which negates 50% of the particulate emissions compared to no increase. But it gets ignored by the unicorn fart believers.
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EV's have regenerative braking - take foot off accelerator and the electrics slow the vehicle by generating power to put charge back into the battery. Significant distances can be driven without touching the brakes. I expect their brake pad life will be multiple times that of an ICE.
 
ntst8 said:
EV's have regenerative braking - take foot off accelerator and the electrics slow the vehicle by generating power to put charge back into the battery. Significant distances can be driven without touching the brakes. I expect their brake pad life will be multiple times that of an ICE.
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getjerry.com

EVs Have an Emissions Problem That You May Not Have Heard About | GetJerry.com

Electric vehicles may emit more toxic particles known as “brake dust” than conventional cars, and environmental groups are taking steps to regulate it.
getjerry.com getjerry.com
 
That is a pretty hazy article. One minute saying brake dust is a problem (it can't be if the friction brakes are almost never used), then mixing brake dust and tyre (tire) wear dust, then a vague statement that a small % of heavy EV's are the problem. For comparison a VW passat weighs approx 1.5T, Tesla Model 3 approx 1.8T, Ford Ranger over 2T.
 
TYRES ON EV's
The tires of electric vehicles wear 20% faster than those of internal combustion engines, which is due to the acceleration of electric vehicles that generate strong instantaneous power. Accordingly, the tires of early electric vehicles focused on abrasion resistance....
We need about five gallons of oil to produce the synthetic rubbers required for a single tire. The whole tire manufacturing process that follows requires two additional gallons of oil. The manufacturing process uses it to fuel the energy required to prepare the materials and assemble the whole tire.

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