EV drawbacks

Bumped into a guy riding one of these ( Energica Experia) a couple of weekends ago, whilst on the Norton. 420 km urban - 250km long distance range, 1 hr to recharge.

I asked him to open it up as he pulled out of the bikers haunt and he disappeared over the hill like he was lighting up a GP bike - but with no sound! We can be as scheptical as this site affords us the opportunity to be, but let’s not ignore the future. It doesn’t make any sense.

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Bumped into a guy riding one of these ( Energica Experia) a couple of weekends ago, whilst on the Norton. 420 km urban - 250km long distance range, 1 hr to recharge.

I asked him to open it up as he pulled out of the bikers haunt and he disappeared over the hill like he was lighting up a GP bike - but with no sound! We can be as scheptical as this site affords us the opportunity to be, but let’s not ignore the future. It doesn’t make any sense.

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The ability to change a lot of electrical energy into kinetic energy swiftly has been used in industry for a century.

The CNC machines I work on take three phase 480VAC, convert it to 200VDC, then create pulse width modulated AC to create very fast & powerful kinetic motion, along with regenerative discharge back to the DC bus link.
For the past 40 years.

It has absolutely NO BEARING on the discussion of RANGE, PRACTICALITY, COST, and the ridiculous ILLUSION that these cars are better for the environment. None.


R/C cars are a lot of fun. For 15 minutes.

(The "one hour to recharge" in the original quote is a lie.)
 
The ability to change a lot of electrical energy into kinetic energy swiftly has been used in industry for a century.

The CNC machines I work on take three phase 480VAC, convert it to 200VDC, then create pulse width modulated AC to create very fast & powerful kinetic motion, along with regenerative discharge back to the DC bus link.
For the past 40 years.

It has absolutely NO BEARING on the discussion of RANGE, PRACTICALITY, COST, and the ridiculous ILLUSION that these cars are better for the environment. None.


R/C cars are a lot of fun. For 15 minutes.

(The "one hour to recharge" in the original quote is a lie.)

That’s great CC - the forum seems to have very little expertise in this area. So, are EV’s a worthless enterprise? Has Elon (in all his ridiculous glory) been misleading us all? Have 75% of the population of Norway been sold a turkey - and it’s not even Christmas? Is the fact that most automotive manufacturers (car and bike) are developing EV’s a complete folly?

Random article - have to admit I haven’t read it: it’s a ‘pick and mix’ as it’s 1 am and I’ve had a few reds!


Personally, I find people who talk in absolutes difficult to understand - it may just be me. Can you explain how it is a ‘ridiculous illusion‘ that EV’s are better for the environment? How do you view 1.5 billion cars emiting carbon monoxide into the atmosphere? Let’s not bother comparing it to bovine methane.
 
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That’s great CC - the forum seems to have very little expertise in this area. So, are EV’s a worthless enterprise? Has Elon (in all his ridiculous glory) been misleading us all? Have 75% of the population of Norway been sold a turkey - and it’s not even Christmas? Is the fact that most automotive manufacturers (car and bike) are developing EV’s a complete folly?

Random article - have to admit I haven’t read it: it’s a ‘pick and mix’ as it’s 1 am and I’ve had a few reds!


Personally, I find people who talk in absolutes difficult to understand - it may just be me. Can you explain how it is a ‘ridiculous illusion‘ that EV’s are better for the environment? How do you view 1.5 billion cars emiting carbon monoxide into the atmosphere? Let’s not bother comparing it to bovine methane.
Physics is absolute.
 
More likely, three years after the Great Plague of '19, a huge portion of people still in their pajamas watching cartoons rather than working
I would like to click "Like", but I only "like" the fact that you've posted this observation. I hate the FACTS of it.
 
To a earlier point
January 2023
Last September, Italians in Rome, Milan and Naples burned their energy bills in a coordinated protest against soaring prices. In October, thousands took to French streets to decry government inaction over the high cost of living. And in November, Spanish workers rallied for higher wages, chanting “salary or conflict.”

Researchers have defined an unprecedented global wave of more than 12,500 protests across 148 countries over food, fuel and cost of living increases in 2022. And the largest were in Western Europe.

Prices of food and especially energy were pushed up first by the COVID-19 pandemic and then by the war in Ukraine. And, while food and energy shortages have hit the Global South hardest, the crisis of affordability is sending increasing numbers of people onto the streets in the richer countries of the Northern Hemisphere.

“There have never been so many cost-of-living — mainly energy — protests around the world documented in a single year before,” said Naomi Hossain, a specialist in the politics of development at Washington-based American University, and lead researcher of a report on last year's unrest.

“Historically, food was the real flashpoint,” Hossain told a reporter ”Now energy is the big thing.”

While energy prices have eased in Europe recently due to more favorable weather governments are not off the hook, said Jeffrey Hallock, Hossain’s co-author. Aside from shared motivations, what links the protests across the globe is “anti-incumbentism,” he said, describing a sentiment of hostility toward the government of the day.

Food inflation has not budged and prices will remain high for some time, boding ill for food security, social tensions and government budgets, the World Bank warned in its latest Food Security Update on Tuesday. Soaring prices for energy and food could meanwhile persist for the next two years, forecast the Global Risks Report prepared ahead of this week's World Economic Forum in Davos.

Although protests have escalated into large-scale national crises in several countries, only Sri Lanka’s government has been forced out as a result — so far. History suggests it is too soon to tell which p.......l crises recent rocketing prices may have set in motion.....to be contuied
Many topics in this reply, but they all boil down to a common denominator: POLITICS.

THAT topic is banned here, so I will only say that it is the SAME problem, EVERYWHERE.
 
That’s great CC - the forum seems to have very little expertise in this area. So, are EV’s a worthless enterprise? Has Elon (in all his ridiculous glory) been misleading us all? Have 75% of the population of Norway been sold a turkey - and it’s not even Christmas? Is the fact that most automotive manufacturers (car and bike) are developing EV’s a complete folly?

Random article - have to admit I haven’t read it: it’s a ‘pick and mix’ as it’s 1 am and I’ve had a few reds!


Personally, I find people who talk in absolutes difficult to understand - it may just be me. Can you explain how it is a ‘ridiculous illusion‘ that EV’s are better for the environment? How do you view 1.5 billion cars emiting carbon monoxide into the atmosphere? Let’s not bother comparing it to bovine methane.
All of those sarcastic questions are answered by the same "FREE MONEY" that governments seem to think they have...
 
Electric cars and bikes would be fine in cities I guess
The pollution could be more controlled at the power station?
You still have the problem of the battery ingredients
But hey they are mined in over countries so not our problem right!
 
Sort of relevant (it is an EV after all), just not sure where the dog fits in :)

 
What about winter temps effect on battery capacity. esp with heater/defroster in heavy use?

Seems to me kids toys have already solved the slow to recharge issue....when little Johnny's electric car runs down, he just gets Daddy to swap in freshly charge batteries and off he goes again. Surely a full scale vehicle could be engineered with a quick swap out battery setup? Just pull into a swap out station, car stops on an automated swap out device, battery tray is dropped out, freshly charged one lifted into place and away you go. The station would have a stack of batteries being charged around the clock.
There was just such a project here in Denmark. As I recall, in 2012 or so, Renault launched their Fluence Z.E. which used a replaceable battery pack provided by Better Place, which was an Israeli company trying to establish a EU wide network of swap stations.

It died about a year or so later, the battery was propriety so only the Fluence Z.E. could use it and there was not enough customers and not enough money.

It's an interesting idea though, which will probably resurface in the near future, but it will require the use of a standard battery pack, which at the moment, no manufacturer wants to commit to.
 
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Not in ANYBODY'S lifetime.

(that may turn out to be just an opinion, but I'm on the record for everyone to criticize later, should that time come in our lifetimes)
I was at an investment forum meeting about 4 or 5 years ago, where they had a session about future trends. This very point was mentioned, together with a photo projected up on the screen taken in New York in (I think) 1910. Street was full of horses and carts, with one car visible.
The next slide was also in New York, in 1916 I think. Filled with cars, a single horse & cart visible.

Change has a habit of coming much faster then we think.

The current business model has it's problems, as everyone points out, but I think it will change, and quickly, regardless of what old dinosaurs like us say and do.
 
Hey buddy you brought the fact checker mentality here in the past to justify your points not me...and as you say I'm entitled to my beliefs like you are to yours ...or your options as you put it.
In all seriousness Shane, without the ante/post hoc ‘fact check’ industry available to us we’d be even more swamped with disinformation than is presently the case - and as a society, I think we’re already deep in the shit with it. There’s a reason why fact checking has become a multi-billion dollar industry.

We’ve all heard the ‘who’s checking the checkers’ and ‘who paid for it’ arguments, insinuating that fact checks are as manipulated as the subject matter they’re supposed to be checking. I disagree - entirely. A well structured fact check from a reputable source should be as close to definitive as is humanly possible. Ideally it takes the reader to links and definitive material that prove/disprove the veracity of the original information.

Point in case, the fact check you challenge me with here did exactly that. It took the reader (you and I) directly to Schwab’s book to enable a word search that proved the words in the posted article were falsely attributed - it then led to the actual author of the words. No need for interpretation/ judgement, or room for deceit or manipulation. Proven disinformation. You did the right thing and took the article down.

In my opinion, we would all benefit from finding a trusted fact-check source (no doubt there are also dubious ones) and making firm friends with it. It’s not a flawless system, but we’re sure as hell better with it than without.
 
There was just such a project here in Denmark. As I recall, in 2012 or so, Renault launched their Fluence Z.E. which used a replaceable battery pack provided by Better Place, which was an Israeli company trying to establish a EU wide network of swap stations.

It died about a year or so later, the battery was propriety so only the Fluence Z.E. could use it and there was not enough customers and not enough money.

It's an interesting idea though, which will probably resurface in the near future, but it will require the use of a standard battery pack, which at the moment, no manufacturer wants to commit to.
I think you’re right, but there needs to be some significant technological breakthroughs first.

For example, although many of us say and think that quick change standardised batteries are the way forward, the industry is going in the opposite direction. Because they are desperately chasing range, they are fitting bigger and bigger batteries. The battery carriers are now so big that they are structural members of the chassis. Battery changes will be very big and expensive jobs on such cars ((think €15k plus).

You only have to look at the incredible number of distinctly mediocre EVs that have come to the market so quickly. It takes car companies a long time to design and launch an entirely new car, even an ICE. It’s very obvious that these current cars have been rushed to market, using no new real tech, but lots of big screens and ‘futuristic‘ styling to make customers think they’re high tech.

We need a breakthrough in battery technology. And charging technology. And a shake up in design abilities and attitudes.

And the massive challenge of charging infrastructure and core generation increase needs solving. This has become a strange issue in my mind, with sceptics shouting about it as though it means EVs are doomed and converts basically sweeping it under the carper saying ‘yeah we all know about that‘ and rolling their eyes with boredom ! But these really are must do things if EVs are going to become the norm.

You‘re an IT bod Steve so maybe this will resonate with you… IMO EVs are basically at the floppy disc stage, we need to get to the super chip stage (or whatever they’re called now) before they will really out compete ICEs.
 
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