Don't touch that oil filter Eugene

Decided it was time to change the oil on a MkIII I picked up a while back. Was going well until I tried to get the oil
filter off. Wouldn't budge. Tried a slip wrench and only succeeded in mangling the filter. What a mess. Had to take
the filter mounting head off the bike, put it in the vise and use a Big pipe wrench before it finally moved. Can not
believe how tight the PO had put that on. Thankfully getting the mounting head off the bike is straight forward.
Cannot imagine what I would do if the filter mount was on the engine in a limited access area, like several cars
I've had (sell the car). A good reminder to put little oil on the rubber gasket and not overly tighten it. In 40 years
of doing my own oil changes this is a first. Anyone got any better tricks?

time honored fast removal has always been to drive a long screwdriver through the filter with a hammer
and thereby twist it right off

this always worked for me with stuck filters, don't know what I would have done if it were still stuck on

shoot it?

incantations, candles and incense, perhaps a little voodoo.......

My MK 3 came to me with an overly tight filter. I recall that I tried my usual wraparound strap type removal wrench, the type that winds up tighter and tighter as you apply pressure with a 3/8" drive ratchet wrench at one side. It wouldn't budge, and was on the verge of collapsing the filter. I bought a flat metal type that fits tight on the multipoint shape at the end of the filter. With a great deal of force, the filter finally broke free.
For a replacement filter I used one of the cheapie Emgo units. I happened to look down inside of it before installing, and there was a large chunk of steel swarf from the filter threads laying in there! This was fresh out of the box, so it was left in during the manufacturing process.
I dont use Emgo filters anymore.

Glen

If you had a filter get loose on the fly the next one ya put on definitely Will Not Come Loose By Itself. Fortunately ya don't have to hardly ever change the filter and only protects against particles/stuff that are big enough to block oil passages so nil for friction and sludge forming dust, so nil damage to engine to have run a long time on single filter. The filter mount is supposed to have a extra tab a jubalee hose clamp secures filter so only normal torque on filter which ain't much more than good hand tight. Its not uncommon to have a rubber seal stick to the mount so two get installed and won't seal w/o super tight. To actually collect some ferric friction size stuff stick a big super magnet on the filter. Figure out a way to secure filter while remembering its not much a often wear replacement item compared to tires or chains or plugs.

Hobot am surprised that you don't change the filter. I always change it plus have extra magnets in large Sump nut an oil tank drain plug. When my cam dead there was stuff on the oil tank plug so it must have gone through filter as whole system had been cleaned an pipes changed. I clean system again fitted new quality filter did 50 careful miles an oil tank magnet has stuff on it. After stripping the engine the right hand big end shell is wrecked an crank needs regains but left shell is fine so it was not a lack of oil pressure or left side would have dead first but swarf that killed the shell an the sludge trap in crank saved other side.
So the oil needs as much cleaning as possible without harming oil pressure or flow rates hence my extra magnets anything you can remove from oil should be removed before it causes harm. If you save a little money in short term on cost of oil and filter you will pay dearly in the long term.
when my engine is back together in the new year it will have cost over £2500 just on parts as am doing the work an I won't be risking all that time an money just for cost of oil an filters

worntorn said:

My MK 3 came to me with an overly tight filter. I recall that I tried my usual wraparound strap type removal wrench, the type that winds up tighter and tighter as you apply pressure with a 3/8" drive ratchet wrench at one side. It wouldn't budge, and was on the verge of collapsing the filter. I bought a flat metal type that fits tight on the multipoint shape at the end of the filter. With a great deal of force, the filter finally broke free.
For a replacement filter I used one of the cheapie Emgo units. I happened to look down inside of it before installing, and there was a large chunk of steel swarf from the filter threads laying in there! This was fresh out of the box, so it was left in during the manufacturing process.
I dont use Emgo filters anymore.

Glen

Click to expand...

I recently bought a oil filter head and Emgo filter, to go on a Bonnie, from Paul Goff and was surprised to find virtually no resistance when blowing through the filter, especially in comparison to the Andover Norton filter. E-mailed Paul Goff and he stated you don't want any resistance. I replied I would expect some resistance due to the paper element in the filter. He didn't reply. I've used the Andover filter.

Plus I agree with Toppy. Filters are very cheap compared to just the gaskets and seals for an engine rebuild, let alone the time and required machining and parts to correct prematurely worn components due to dirty oil. Magnets only attract ferrous particles.

hobot said:

If you had a filter get loose on the fly the next one ya put on definitely Will Not Come Loose By Itself.


[color=#BF0000]Fortunately ya don't...un a long time on single filter.[/color][url]
[/url]

The filter mount is supposed to have a extra tab a jubalee hose clamp secures filter so only normal torque on filter which ain't much more than good hand tight. Its not uncommon to have a rubber seal stick to the mount so two get installed and won't seal w/o super tight. To actually collect some ferric friction size stuff stick a big super magnet on the filter. Figure out a way to secure filter while remembering its not much a often wear replacement item compared to tires or chains or plugs.

Click to expand...

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Rubbish!.............




.

PUROLATOR :

MOTORCYCLE
Every 8000 miles or every 12 months
SNOWMOBILE
Every 12,000 miles, 12 months or 200 hours
ATV
Every 3200 miles, 12 months or 320 hours
RECREATIONAL WATERCRAFT
Every 12 months or 100 hours

a bit of semi legable drivle on filters .http://www.precisionenginetech.com/tech ... s-exposed/

Oil & Filter changes are paramont to Engine Life and Condition . Contaminated oil tears the guts out of anything mechanical , like lapping paste . :x

Struggle no more...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Norton-Comma ... 0995983928

Filters usually come with instructions recommending only 1/2 turn after seal has contacted filter head face, plus a smear of oil on the rubber. This results in an oil tight seal which is surprisingly tight when it comes to removal but hand pressure normally does the trick. No real need for trick filters.

I have always put a smear of silicone grease on the seal and a light tightening. Hose clamp keeps it from turning.

Had a similar situation the first time I changed oil on my Suzuki. The factory had wound the filter on so tight and access to it was limited by the exhaust. I ended up crushing the shell completely and had to use an old long screwedriver and hammer to drift it off. I bought a pair of oil filter pliers made by KD Tools, part # 3368. The are slip jointed like channellock pliers and have long curved jaws so you can grip the filter right at the base with less chance of crushing it.

BTW, If you find yourself needing to remove the filter mounting head, remove the hoses at the far end first,
this allows you to pull the head down far enough to remove the hoses from the head and leave the hoses in place.

The filter I had to mangle to get off had various numbers on it, don't remember what, and and a stamp
stating Made in Italy. I don't recall seeing a manufacturers name on it. I replaced it with an Andover filter
from Old Britts.

I like the idea of filling the new filter with oil before installation but horizontal filters make that messy.
So this time I put enough oil in the filter to soak the media but not enough that it would immediately
run out before I got it on the head. I've been doing that for many years on vehicles with vertical mount
filters and observed that the oil pressure comes up quicker after a change.

I am pretty sure that the oil filter is on the return line on Commandos so it should have no impact on feed pressure to the critical bottom end. It may delay pressuring up the rocker feed by a bit but generally this is not critical. And then there is the general topping off of the system when you change the filter.

Along another line of thought, I always suspected that most oil filters had a by-pass valve for when flow rate & viscosity conditions would cause an over pressure and damage the filter element. I doubt this applies to simple metal screen filters/strainers but I imagine paper filer media would blow out or buckle with cold 40-50 wt oil. Anyone in the know that can confirm this or shed some light on this?

Dances with Shrapnel said:

... I always suspected that most oil filters had a by-pass valve for when flow rate & viscosity conditions would cause an over pressure and damage the filter element. Anyone in the know that can confirm this or shed some light on this?

Click to expand...

Check out the following subject: http://www.accessnorton.com/oil-filter-conversion-part-number-t17010.html for the Wix/NAPA part number. I included all the Wix parameters in the link, and you're correct; you do want a bypass valve. As for pre-charging the filter on my Norton, I don't bother, due to the fact that it's in the return line (as pointed out earlier), and doesn't affect the oiling system like it would in a "conventional" system. My cars do get pre-charged, and you definitely see the oil pressure come up quicker! Highly recommended... Nathan

but I imagine paper filer media would blow out or buckle with cold 40-50 wt oil. Anyone in the know that can confirm this or shed some light on this?

Click to expand...

for some 30 I lived in the very cold climate of Minnesota, USA

my Commandos all had oil filters and also had either straight 40 or 50 oil

I kickstarted them in very cold conditions as low as 15 degrees and as far as I know without discernible bad
effects

but then how would I know if the oil filter couldn't handle the cold and pressure and blew out anyway?

certainly my bikes started and ran just fine, I remember that, maybe the filter ignored the theory?

just a personal comment on Hobot's asserted claim that oil filters "hardly need changing".....

I put this belief in the same category as some other Hobot contentions, like one carb flows as much air as two carbs and thereby produces as much horsepower

as Chris said up thread...."rubbish"

I want to say that although Steve and I have disagreed and will probably continue to do so, he sure seems to me to be the kind of guy that I would like and want as a friend !

1up3down said:

but then how would I know if the oil filter couldn't handle the cold and pressure and blew out anyway?

certainly my bikes started and ran just fine, I remember that, maybe the filter ignored the theory?

Click to expand...

No theory but your assessment is correct. How would you know if you had a blown filter element unless you had some indicator of filtration on versus filtration off.

Thats is why the importance of a bypass for cold or high flow conditions as nicely pointed out by Nater_Potater. It is a fail to safe system.

Bottom line is if you go through the trouble of installing and maintaining a filter it should do some good.

Like Guido said, use a silicone grease on filter gasket, in general aviation we use Dow Corning DC4 electrical insulating compound, silicone based with a temp. range of -70F. - +400F., works better than engine oil, this from someone who has changed thousands of oil filters. One small tube has lasted almost 30 years and still half there. Also good on 'O' rings etc.

Most filters have bypass valve and are proud to claim so on the box, just know that the cold bypassed oil is not filtered. If in doubt, the next time you change your filter, cut it open and look inside for the pop off valve, just a little silicone disc or small spring loaded stamped metal disc.
Then pull the filter pleats apart and look for metal particles, rinse element in solvent and strain thru a coffee filter, drag a magnet thru to pick up ferrous bits, examine what's left and with a bit of knowledge of what your engine components are made of or plated with, one can get an idea of what may be wearing abnormally. If your anal, send out sample for oil analysis, if done regularly, you can follow the wear trend but that's if your anal or your life depends on your engine and that's not usually the case with our old bikes is it?

Personally, I would change the filter with every oil change and plan to have both a return and pressure side filter, at least that's the plan for now...Mark

Ugh, just read what I posted, if you're inside the filter the bypass valve will in most cases be metal with a spring, a silicone disc would probably be anti drain back if not incorporated in the base design...I always stand to be corrected, even by myself...Mark