Crank nick at seal

Foxy · Jun 29, 2013

Do it properly and use a speedy sleeve! Not dump a dump truck fix but smart technology. Large engines such as Cummins supply new engines with speedy sleeves already installed so as to not mark the crank. As time goes by and the motor goes through thousands of heat cycles, seals harden and groove the shaft!

CanukNortonNut · Jun 29, 2013

Foxy said:
Do it properly and use a speedy sleeve! Not dump a dump truck fix but smart technology.

+1 on the speedy sleeve. Do it right once.
CNN

B.Rad · Jun 29, 2013

hello All

regarding silver soldering option:: since the silver solder temp is excess of 300Deg C, would that not start removing temper from the already heat treated crank ?. if so would that not rule it out as a repair method. even if the engine is disassembled.

Then again, some weld these cranks I suppose. gets very confusing sometimes .

Appreciate any explanations
Errors and corrections welcomed
Bradley

Torontonian · Jun 29, 2013

Speedysleeve link ? Sounds like a sleeve to fit a smaller inside diameter seal ?

CanukNortonNut · Jun 29, 2013

Torontonian said:
Speedysleeve link ? Sounds like a sleeve to fit a smaller inside diameter seal ?

http://www.skf.com/group/products/seals ... index.html
a sleeve which goes over the damaged section of the shaft to bring it back to service. Millwrights best friend.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

Hobot · Jun 29, 2013

Another more ancient way is plating by chrome or copper and machined back to spec. Not exactly a short cut fix, but then very little effective Norton recovery is.

dero · Jun 29, 2013

I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has fitted a sleeve here & had it in service for any length of time , as I have been told by the engineers I have asked that they were reluctant to reduce the shaft in this area to fit the sleeve .

DogT · Jun 30, 2013

Extra-hard solder has 80% silver and melts at 1,370 °F (740 °C). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering ... _soldering

I would think that would be easy enough on a spot with some shields unless it's really hard to get to.

Dave
69S

Foxy · Jun 30, 2013

A speedy sleeve installation requires NO machining of the shaft (hence the word SPEEDY) Its a tap on fit requiring the thinest amount of sealant. Sleeves usually come in about .o10 thickness and work with standard seals. Quicker then any other method Im assuming for this application on the Norton crank as I havent used one here!

Reggie · Jun 30, 2013

My crankshaft oil seal area on the crank was quite badly marked, and so I got my crankshaft taper metal sprayed by an engineering company not far from me.
Obviously, the engine needs to be in a dissembled state to do this, and it cost about 70 GBP, so not cheap, but it comes back like new.

The speedy sleeves sound like a good alternative though.

pommie john · Jun 30, 2013

I tried the speedy sleeve on this location, or at least I bought one then realised it wouldn't fit!

The sleeve has a flange on it which is used to drive it on, then the flange is snapped off leaving just the sleeve in place. However the flange is larger in diameter than the opening in the crankcase that houses the seal so the sleeve cannot be driven on far enough.

It might work if the bottom end were totally dismantled and it was fitted to a bare crankshaft, but I can't see a way of fitting a sleeve with the engine still assembled.

CanukNortonNut · Jun 30, 2013

DogT said:
Extra-hard solder has 80% silver and melts at 1,370 °F (740 °C). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering ... _soldering

I would think that would be easy enough on a spot with some shields unless it's really hard to get to.

Dave
69S

I wouldn’t put that heat anywhere near the area of the seal as the Superblend bearing is right next-door.
Unless Torontonian wants to split the case and do it right.
Cheers,

Thomas
CNN

CanukNortonNut · Jun 30, 2013

pommie john said:
I tried the speedy sleeve on this location, or at least I bought one then realised it wouldn't fit!

The sleeve has a flange on it which is used to drive it on, then the flange is snapped off leaving just the sleeve in place. However the flange is larger in diameter than the opening in the crankcase that houses the seal so the sleeve cannot be driven on far enough.

It might work if the bottom end were totally dismantled and it was fitted to a bare crankshaft, but I can't see a way of fitting a sleeve with the engine still assembled.

Well there you go. :? Good to know. So no easy fix.
CNN

Torontonian · Jun 30, 2013

No easy fix ,reluctant to use heat due to main bearing proximity. Hmmmm.

CanukNortonNut · Jun 30, 2013

Torontonian said:
No easy fix ,reluctant to use heat due to main bearing proximity. Hmmmm.

Well you can always fall back on JB Weld as swooshdave :mrgreen: alluded.
I have used devcon titanium putty to repair pump shafts that were badly pitted . After aplication andmachining down to the shaft size I would then used the speedy sleeve over the machined repaired area to have the seal ride on the SS sleeve for a good seal. This is what I consider “ a band-aid job”. Long enough to order a new pump and to make it to the next outage but not long term operation expectancy.
Check out the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88Dkwn09fpo
But can you say M.I.C.K.E.Y….M._._._E !!!
Take it apart and do it right.
CNN

Foxy · Jul 1, 2013

pommie john said:
I tried the speedy sleeve on this location, or at least I bought one then realised it wouldn't fit!

The sleeve has a flange on it which is used to drive it on, then the flange is snapped off leaving just the sleeve in place. However the flange is larger in diameter than the opening in the crankcase that houses the seal so the sleeve cannot be driven on far enough.

It might work if the bottom end were totally dismantled and it was fitted to a bare crankshaft, but I can't see a way of fitting a sleeve with the engine still assembled.

Gday John, would it work if the drive lip was ground down enough to enter?

AntrimMan · Jul 1, 2013

Torontonian said:
You can see a small drip forming at the seal, not the 3 studs.

Make yourself up an equation,
on one side of the equals sign list all the dificulties and aggravation of doing something to the crank seal land with the engine assembled,
on the other side list the amount of oil leaking.
If you are not considering removing the crank then perhaps it is best to leave well enough alone.
We had a saying as youths, "Oil is cheap."
All the Best.

CanukNortonNut · Jul 1, 2013

Foxy said:
pommie john said:

I tried the speedy sleeve on this location, or at least I bought one then realised it wouldn't fit!

Gday John, would it work if the drive lip was ground down enough to enter?

Click to expand...

Foxy
I was thinking on the same line but then its all R&D from here on in for Torontonian. He would have to figure a way to grind down the lip, (Buddy with a lathe) make a custom tube that will tightly fit and push on the remainder of the lip. (Buddy with a lathe) Now if the cut for the breakaway for the lip is NOT in the proximity of the main seal area but inboard of it...I would say drive it in and leave it without removing said lip once modified. Cause it’s going to be a bugger to remove that once it’s tucked inside of the crankcase seal area. I have installed speedy sleeves but not on a Norton so its all academic.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

Torontonian · Jul 1, 2013

Break - off lip ? Now i'm confused.

Foxy · Jul 2, 2013

mmmmm... you've got me thinking, wondering if the sleeve could be expanded slightly through heat and put on back to front for easier installation, then lip removed?
Torontonian, speedy sleeves come with a flared end to tap for installation. The ones Ive fitted on Cummins diesels, you dont remove the lip/flare.
Have you tried to source a double lipped seal?

Crank nick at seal

Similar threads