Commando starter upgrade

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tony.pattison

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Jun 16, 2011
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Hi folks
I have just bought my first Commando a 1973 850cc Mk1
The bike is really nice with some usefull but discrete upgrades (modern disc, hydraulic clutch, electronic ignition, lots of stainless etc.)
The question is, what would be required to fit an electric start? I know the original electric-foot was a bit feeble and lots of folk don't like them but if I wanted to fit one what would I need? I can get a powerful modern motor from Norvil et al, I have fitted a massive gel battery from a LeMans and can easily handle the electrics (Electronic Engineerin pays for the toys) but what I don't know about is the way the motor drives the engine.
There must be a starter clutch arrangement and a chain to the engine I guess? Any links to drawings of how it all works?
Any info gratefully received
tony.pattison@zed-tg.co.uk
 
If you want OEM, you have to change out your entire primary system for a Mark III assembly. That can be very economical on e-bay from time to time, or at a Britbike swap meet. If you try to build it from new parts, it'll cost more than any of the aftermarket setups.

The good thing is that you can retain the right-foot-shift if you desire. If you DO want the left-foot-shift, you'll also need to change out the transmission iner & outer covers, and obtain the crossover shifter shaft.
 
grandpaul said:
If you want OEM, you have to change out your entire primary system for a Mark III assembly.That can be very economical on e-bay from time to time, or at a Britbike swap meet.
Click to expand...

It also needs the 850 Mk3 crankshaft (and preferably the Mk3 crankcases too), and even if the Tony did manage to acquire the majority of parts economically (certainly not from UK ebay thse days!) and even with a Norvil starter motor it's still likely to result in starter drive which may not be entirely satisfactory due to the starter sprag which seems to be a regular source of trouble for some Mk3 owners.



grandpaul said:
The good thing is that you can retain the right-foot-shift if you desire. If you DO want the left-foot-shift, you'll also need to change out the transmission iner & outer covers, and obtain the crossover shifter shaft.
Click to expand...

If right foot gearchange was a priority, then think it would be easier (and cheaper) in the long run to buy a Mk3 and convert it to right foot change rather than graft the Mk3 electric start parts onto an earlier model?

http://www.nortonmotors.de/ANIL/Norton% ... &Plate=010
http://www.nortonmotors.de/ANIL/Norton% ... &Plate=011
http://www.nortonmotors.de/ANIL/Norton% ... &Plate=012
 
He's already got the '73 as the starting point...

The crank has a different shaft diameter profile on the Mk III?
 
Hi guys
Thanks to all for thier input.
Currently kickstart isn't much of an issue but electric start would be nice.
The best solution I have seen so far is the French system but it looks to me like they have given up on it as I can find nothing about it this year and it's not on their website. I have emailed to enquire.
Strange that these solutions all use sprag clutches (Mk111 seems to be a feeble unit prone to failure) - wonder why no-one ever just fitted a small car-type pre-engaged unit (or even a bendix!)?
Tony
 
grandpaul said:
He's already got the '73 as the starting point...
Click to expand...

Yes but it would be more viable to sell it and buy a Mk3 rather than convert it using Mk3 parts.


grandpaul said:
The crank has a different shaft diameter profile on the Mk III?
Click to expand...

The Mk3 crank D/S shaft is longer as it also has to accommodate the starter sprag mechanism.


tony.pattison said:
The best solution I have seen so far is the French system but it looks to me like they have given up on it as I can find nothing about it this year and it's not on their website. I have emailed to enquire.
Click to expand...

The Alton system is certainly overdue for release, however as Jeandr said, perhaps there will be some good news shortly.

tony.pattison said:
Strange that these solutions all use sprag clutches (Mk111 seems to be a feeble unit prone to failure) - wonder why no-one ever just fitted a small car-type pre-engaged unit (or even a bendix!)?
Click to expand...

The Old Britts starter is pre-engaged (drives a ring gear on the clutch basket).
http://www.oldbritts.com/starter_upd.html
 
I just talked to Hervé Hamon and he is coming over monday July 11 with a starter kit to install on his 72 Norton. I will post pictures of the installation very soon after it is done. He will be at the Empire Rally to show his bike with the starter so guys with feeble legs, take note :wink:

Jean
 
Hi guys
Just had email from Les Malone at Norvil and they have the Alton electric start kits in stock at £1,350 + VAT (20%) so £1,620 to you Sir!
Not cheap but looks a nice piece of kit to me.
Might go for one if I sell the X75 Hurricane.....
Tony
 
I have these parts in my garage

Commando starter upgrade


They will be going on a 1972 Commando tomorrow, more pictures to follow.

Jean
 
jeffdavison said:
Would there be a link to an instructional installation PDF?

JD
Click to expand...

I have the instructions on old fashion plain paper and in french. I will scan them later and post them if only for the pictures. The Alton starter will be on display at the Norton Empire Rally next week.

Jean
 
quite a dilema. That Alton setup looks nice and clean and I'll be it works great. but....I would feel like I'm cheating if I omitted the process of kicking the old gal to life. Someday though, when I'm too old to boot it to life I'll definately be putting one of these on. Hopefully they'll still be selling them in 20 years when I hit my 70's.
 
You can buy a kit in the US from QPD. They have demo video on their web site of a 850 Commando fitted out with the system originally desined for Kenny Dreer. This is the basis for the Old Britt version too. QPD has been making all sorts of belt drive primaries and final drives too for sometime.

www.quietpowerdrive.com
 
Jeandr said:
I have these parts in my garage

Commando starter upgrade


They will be going on a 1972 Commando tomorrow, more pictures to follow.

Jean
Click to expand...

Do you have the one for the belt too?
Philippe
 
ML said:
You can buy a kit in the US from QPD. They have demo video on their web site of a 850 Commando fitted out with the system originally desined for Kenny Dreer. This is the basis for the Old Britt version too. QPD has been making all sorts of belt drive primaries and final drives too for sometime.

http://www.quietpowerdrive.com
Click to expand...

The starter from QPD and the Old Brit starter which is based on the QPD design with some notable improvements (mainly an ouriger bearing to the transmission) both require modifications to the engine cradle. Anyone who has done any work on a Norton knows that taking the cradle out is a big job. The cradles and the chaincases must be shipped to QPD or Old Brits for machining operations.

Installing the Alton starter however is a job that can be done in a few hours and it is totally reversible meaning the starter could be removed and the stock parts put back on and no one would know it was ever there.

The starter kit I will install tomorrow with Hervé is a chain drive model, but he told me they have a belt drive model which has both a new primary belt and a belt for the starter.

Another plus for the Alton is a new more powerful alternator.

Jean
 
Can you ask Herve if the belt one will work with the Norvil belt system?
Thanks.
Philippe
PS: tell him I am back from Laguiole too!
 
prmurat said:
Can you ask Herve if the belt one will work with the Norvil belt system?
Thanks.
Philippe
PS: tell him I am back from Laguiole too!
Click to expand...

I think previously they said no.
 
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