final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade

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got back the last of the machining from my friend for the Yves fix for the alton starter/woodruff key failure. everything worked out perfectly, considering he's 1K miles away and we did this via snail-mail and the phone. the scary part was transferring the location for the spacer holes from the engine sprocket, however the instructions in the yves write-up thread was spot on. to be honest, i doubt my machinest buddy could have gotten things any better. everything went together without issues. installed a belleville washer along with thread locker and torque the retaining nut to 75 ft.lbs. hopefully this will put an end to my alton/woodruff key issues. wrapping up things today - road test/shake down tomorrow.

final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade


final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade


final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade


final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade
 
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got back the last of the machining from my friend for the Yves fix for the alton starter/woodruff key failure. everything worked out perfectly, considering he's 1K miles away and we did this via snail-mail and the phone. the scary part was transferring the location for the spacer holes from the engine sprocket, however the instructions in the yves write-up thread was spot on. to be honest, i doubt my machinest buddy could have gotten things any better. everything went together without issues. installed a belleville washer along with thread locker and torque the retaining nut to 75 ft.lbs. hopefully this will put an end to my alton/woodruff key issues. wrapping up things today - road test/shake down tomorrow.

final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade


final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade


final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade


final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade
Good luck with it!
 
Cool.

Is the guy set up for repeatability?
since i'm not a machinest, i really can't answer that for him, but my guess is no. i can say that each step, or new feature is driven by the previous part. there is a lot of back and forth work involved. as i said, we're 1000 miles apart - the whole job is going on six weeks now. the core of the yves design is the spacer. i redrew the spacer from yves original sketch, and i can say, his original part is perfect. beyond that, each machining step is pretty much done for a custom fit. i really doubt this design can be mass produced.
 
got back the last of the machining from my friend for the Yves fix for the alton starter/woodruff key failure. everything worked out perfectly, considering he's 1K miles away and we did this via snail-mail and the phone. the scary part was transferring the location for the spacer holes from the engine sprocket, however the instructions in the yves write-up thread was spot on. to be honest, i doubt my machinest buddy could have gotten things any better. everything went together without issues. installed a belleville washer along with thread locker and torque the retaining nut to 75 ft.lbs. hopefully this will put an end to my alton/woodruff key issues. wrapping up things today - road test/shake down tomorrow.

final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade


final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade


final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade


final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade
I see you are you are also using the alternator woodruff key
The Yves setup only used the new adapter
 
It does seem strange that machinists in various places across the world have been able to replicate this excellent modification and yet Alton themselves continue to mimic a Camel, hiding their heads in the sand and hoping the issue will just go away. Very odd and definitely reduces confidence in what is by all accounts an otherwise excellent product.
 
It does seem strange that machinists in various places across the world have been able to replicate this excellent modification and yet Alton themselves continue to mimic a Camel, hiding their heads in the sand and hoping the issue will just go away. Very odd and definitely reduces confidence in what is by all accounts an otherwise excellent product.
i'm thinking the only way this mod could be included in kit form is for alton (or anyone else), to provide a new engine sprocket. that way all component alignment features from the sprag clutch, the spacer, and the engine sprocket could be addressed. of course, it might add a couple hundred $$$ to the cost, howerver, IMO, it would be well worth it.

as for why i used the woodruff key - just did, no specific timing reason. had my friend machine the flats on the sprag-clutch sprocket, parallel the the keyway slot. that way, by default, it keeps the timing marks in place. since the woodruff key fit as designed, it just verifies the accuracy of all other components and machine work. when you trial fit parts to transfer the holes from the sprocket to the spacer, the woodruff key is necessary for overall alignment. bottom line, the key is now a redundant feature, and not really necessary.
 
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Or, just design for the max thickness and supply a few varying thickness sims for thinner ones. CNW supply shims for a number of their different kits for this reason.
 
all back together and buttoned up. starts fine w/ no apparent issues. don't know if it's me or some sort of wishful thinking, but it seems more solid, and starts a little better and quicker than before the fix. hopefully this puts an end to any further problems. one final world - a big thanks to Yves for the design, the fix, and his how-to thread - two thumbs up!

BTW - i'm thinking it might have been cliffa who asked, but if anyone wants to know what was inside the sprag-clutch assembly, here's a pic - pretty much just a sprocket w/ faceplate and bearing assembly , sore sort of centrifical clutch, a clamping ring, and (not shown) a magnetic ring (alternator rotor) --

final fix - alton starter/yves mod-upgrade
 
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But the question still comes back to WHY are there issues with some and no issues with others? If they were as troublesome overall as posts here make them seem, nobody would have purchased them after the first couple of years. But they have been selling them for almost 10 years now... ??
 
But the question still comes back to WHY are there issues with some and no issues with others? If they were as troublesome overall as posts here make them seem, nobody would have purchased them after the first couple of years. But they have been selling them for almost 10 years now... ??
I'm guessing that there are tolerance stackup issues that make some installations work as intended and others that don't get enough "friction" to drive the engine sprocket.
 
Thanks Joe for sharing your history with the Alton. I have one on this 72 which was previously installed by the PO. I am currently getting the rebuild road ready and the limited use last season and the few test runs now have not shown any issues(knock on wood) with the unit. The tips you and other members on your thread sure helped me with the reinstallation. I opted to not modify at this point, as everything seemed solid when it was taken apart. I will be removing the primary cover for inspection after a good break in and will make sure everything is still tight.
 
I'm guessing that there are tolerance stackup issues that make some installations work as intended and others that don't get enough "friction" to drive the engine sprocket.
agreed. not only do you have to deal with tolerance stackup on the alton pieces/parts, but the tolerance stackup on the norton components. you're mixing apples and oranges and trying to end up with a fruit salad. adding a shim kit as gortnipper suggested might solve some problems, however a Yves type mod or upgrade to the kit is the answer.
 
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Thanks Joe for sharing your history with the Alton. I have one on this 72 which was previously installed by the PO. I am currently getting the rebuild road ready and the limited use last season and the few test runs now have not shown any issues(knock on wood) with the unit. The tips you and other members on your thread sure helped me with the reinstallation. I opted to not modify at this point, as everything seemed solid when it was taken apart. I will be removing the primary cover for inspection after a good break in and will make sure everything is still tight.
In case you don't have a copy

 
Over and above the original cost of the Alton setup the upgrades look convincing and solid but I wonder about the cost of all these developments and modifications?
Seems like there was "no turning back" but a "fix the problem" scenario for you on this project.
With all the machine work and time involved in your upgrade would you go Alton again or choose another mfg.?
 
I know I have said this before but I think it's worth repeating
how many Alton starters have been sold? And how many have this problem?
As a comparison who would buy a trispark ignition given the track record for reliability?
 
Over and above the original cost of the Alton setup the upgrades look convincing and solid but I wonder about the cost of all these developments and modifications?
Seems like there was "no turning back" but a "fix the problem" scenario for you on this project.
With all the machine work and time involved in your upgrade would you go Alton again or choose another mfg.?
right - there's was no turning back. between the two - on the fence with this one. as i said before, initially it was a cost issue and the fact i preferred the stock norton air cleaner. the belt drive was not a driving factor. knowing what i know now, and if i had to decide between alton and cNw, i'd add in modification costs up front. that would negate the price difference, so that leaves the aesthetics. most likely i'd stay with tha alton and incorporate the mod or fix with the initial installation. if it was an issue of installing either system, straight up, as designed, i'd probably lean toward cNw. I PERSONALLY WOULD NOT INSTALL ANOTHER ALTON SYSTEM WITHOUT THE YVES FIX - PERIOD! having two failed woodruff keys kind of soured things with me toward alton kit. if the yves fix eliminates ALL further issues - i'll be good with alton. in reality, alton needs to pony up and fix the design. there's more that one person that have had issues with the alton kit, so obviously there is a problem. IMO, for what it costs, even a couple failures is unaceptable.

my actual costs so far have been a steak dinner, but planning on sending my machinist friend a gift card for all his help. he really didn't want anything to do the job, but this was beyond what i considered a freebie. friends like this guy are far and few between. i figure if i had to farm this job out, a mod like this would cost me in the range of a couple hundred - give or take.
 
I know I have said this before but I think it's worth repeating
how many Alton starters have been sold? And how many have this problem?
As a comparison who would buy a trispark ignition given the track record for reliability?
hard to say not knowing the total number of kits sold. many folks are not on this forum, so people reporting faliure numbers, again, are unknown. if i had to guess, i'd say 10-15% minimum. relying on the straight portion of the crank, the rotor woodruff key and the clamping force of a single retaining nut, IMO, is a major design flaw. in a perfect world it may be OK, but this is far from a perfect design.

BOO-HOO - i just installed a new tri-spark. i know what you're saying and it's far from a perfect design. it's a clean design, but packaging all the electronics in an engine mounted module, subject ot engine heat and vibration, has it's drawbacks. hopefully the newer versions of the tri-spark have addressed these reliability issues. if not, one more failure, and it's back to boyer-brandson.
 
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