Commando racer rebirth

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This was the best mod yet as the result is a very balanced handling bike with quick steering, fantastic on the tighter circuits though a bit unstable at speed on the faster tracks like Phillip Island, but nothing a good steering damper cant controll and not bad enough to encourage me to slip the forks back down again!

Aw Man Fred, Had me going there thinking I was missing out on something like fork geometry, But Nope, every time I read someone's report that really presses motorcycles to dis-comfort level, I get more evidence Ms Peel has essentially solved All Motorcycle Handling Quirks and Upsets. I KNOW, if a steering damper is thought about, then you ain't got squat for real handling and better be DAMN good at holding back or recovering an upset. Don't feel picked on my me, I feel same way after reading the test ride reports of new cycles to one off special racers, all corner cripples merely straight line missiles.

In about a year or so Ms Peel should come online and put the dead end experimenting to an end and maybe up the cost of Commandos as sought after best surface handling devices developed by mankind so far. Serious I test bikes to crashing zones on purpose and find their faults very soon but so far have not been able to find anything Peel lacks but more power to go in through and out faster yet with even less effort.

Your report was the last detail, on fork geometry I was missing to know for sure now - You'al don't know what you are missing out on in tri-links and Roadholder travel and damper rod mods. If ya still use brakes when leaned then proof you are living too dam dangerous for my Hi G's riding thrills on Peel.
Can't wait to try real street tires, hehehe. But there is still hope for those extra specials like you have to catch up with me in turns, till boost hits.

If ya stick with established proven methods of motorcycle design you will be stuck in same rut i find them in to leave flat behind for some real fun solo.

Steve 'hobot' Shiver
 
hobot said:
... I KNOW, if a steering damper is thought about, then you ain't got squat for real handling and better be DAMN good at holding back or recovering an upset. ...

Steve 'hobot' Shiver

Steve,

Maybe I'm tilting at windmills here, but most racebikes have steering dampers attached. Most racebikes pull the rake in and reduce trail to obtain a quick steering bike in the turns. The result is a front-end geometry that's very sensitive to any imbalance in the front wheel. Most racing organizations require steering stabilizers for this reason and most modern sport bikes come equipped with them from the factory. Even with stabilizers I've seen more than a couple of bikes go into a tank slapper on the race track... for what it's worth...
 
Maybe I'm tilting at windmills here, but most racebikes have steering dampers attached. Most racebikes pull the rake in and reduce trail to obtain a quick steering bike in the turns. The result is a front-end geometry that's very sensitive to any imbalance in the front wheel. Most racing organizations require steering stabilizers for this reason and most modern sport bikes come equipped with them from the factory. Even with stabilizers I've seen more than a couple of bikes go into a tank slapper on the race track... for what it's worth...

Yep and totally backs up my firm and tested findings, that everything else but
a linked isolastic Commando with modified Roadholders are corner cripples. I'm not misleading ya on this as its a life/death risk to push corners G's past what any other bike and tires can take. Think about this - to go faster takes power on rear, enough power on rear lifts front out of traction, to put more mass on front takes traction power holding off the rear, so to me racers have shot them selves in the foot following philosophy that the front tire is needed to turn a bike. Front tire is only helpful when going as slow as best racers do around tighter turns but extends into lessor leans-longer sweepers too. You can not lean a bike much - even w/o power- and prevent the forks expanding and lifting planting-traction loads off front tire. If you get going harsh enough tarmac behaves like loose Gravel, can't depend on front tire to aim the rear so limits all other bikes to slow poking until after apex and can straighten up to plant power or even lift front off surface to plant rear power. Any and every bike can handling after apex loads with as much power as they have. Its going into the turns super fast on greatly increasing power that sorts the cripples from the capable. Only speedway ice spiked, raw hill climbers and Mx bikes in a deep rut on steep banks can handle loads and G's forces Ms Peel does on flat tarmac turns and use straight steering at speed. Ms Peel does not need nor can benefit by stinking steering damper, in fact its becomes dangerous as forks must be free to follow road until lifted out of interfering with the rear tire that rules the roost on real turning. No one but me talks about the 5 phases of handling, nor would I if not for the miracle of rear link and its 2 helpers.

At each transition of phase, like ice to water, fork action reverses, so if forks prevented from flipping sides super fast on their own, ya crash, just like hot shot racers rigs if not wisely slowing WTF down for turns. Sliding while crossed up is not a faster way around, so don't be fooled by racer stunts smoking rear, just widens the turns and prevents better thrust ahead to me on Ms Peel. Consider what's going on with front tire losing down force and pointing to outside of turn. Tire vector conflicts shoot through the roof and twists chassis which then reach a frequency of rebound that takes tires off surface and riders into it. The tiny itty bitty gains moderns get by faster steering geometry and trail braking is so little to me I shun that crap any more and is very dangerous states on cycles that can't absorb the random wiggles and splashing induced.

To get a sense of the incredible load handling iso Commando's have lurking, go 20 mph and try to straight steer and see what happens through frame and hi side onset, Peel can handle that - but not because she has super rigid chassis or fat ass tires. To do more of that faster is main reason for more power to me.
Also Ms Peel feels like an over loaded Goldwing when just puttering about, which I do way more than anything else. Plan is to get times on tracks for pecking order proof of principle but main pleasure is solo daily use.
 
Some interesting theories there Steve, one point I think you have missed is the effect centifugal force applies during fast cornering to compress the suspension into the road surface. Consider on entry to a fast sweeper after any braking and on the sides of the tires the way the bike settles down on the suspension and becomes quite stable under the influence of centrifugal force, then on exiting the corner and applying power the rear end squats / bites in and unloads the front end, this is where rear wheel steering counts.
For sure a standard Commando in good fettle is a sweet handling thing, the basics are there but it's not a race bike.
Racing bikes with stiff forks, low inertia around the fork axis, and small trail figures benifit from having a steering damper fitted .
This is just my experience and as I have found there are far more learned experts on this forum than I, and I am glad for any and all comments.
Fred.
 
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