Chains

As you might have seen in other threads I am The Chain Man.

However my reason to be here is to help not make money, read my web site and you may
understand my motives.

Where you buy chain from is not important as long as you understand the product. I took over
iwis UK from my father who started it. As well as being a biker I have raced cars and karts and
still have the passion. My bike is a Bandit 1200 streetfighter with mega HP and it goes mostly
on the back wheel, yes I am old.

My main business is race engine cam chain and I supply Aston Martin, Nicolson McLaren, Ginettta
and Radical amongst many others but I am still a lover of bikes especially old English bikes.

The biggest problem is ignorance but via lack of information rather than stupidity. Bikers over the
years have been force fed a diet of "heavy duty", O ring, X ring and various "race" products, the vast
majority of which are over priced and not needed. The majority of English machines run 2 basic chains
08B-1 and 10B-1, most made originally by Renold. The original Renold was superb but I will nto sell the
current crop. I sell and stand behind iwis as it is the best chain on the market for classic machines.

If you need advice I am here, just e-mail or call me.

I will leave you with one thought......bikes wear chain they should not break them (if the do look
for the reason), so why have a heavy chain. I am told my Bandit has close to 127 horses and I run a
standard iwis chain, with a spring clip.

I could bore for England on chain so I will leave it there but please look me up at shows, see my web site
for dates, and I will show you the secrets.

All the best

Andy

PS If the moderaters want me off the forum I will leave but the Laverda guys have found me useful over
the past 4-5 years.

Hi Andy,

Any comments on Diamond chain for those of us in the US? Application is 750 Commando combat.

Thanks

Diamond is a bit like Renold in the UK.

They used to be top but I think they then got involve with an Indian company,
bear in mind my words "I think".

As with Renold the industrial market is key to chains and the industrial market
does not expect the same quality as automotive and motorcycles. You have to
understand that DIN is a minimum standard and all shit conforms.

Also you are in America and the ASA50 chain is a little wider than the UK 10B-1
and may affect clean running of the chain in guides and between the cases.

The reason I sell iwis is simple, it is typically 1/3 above DIN and has a chromised
pin good wear (usually found in automotive). When you get a chance check the pin dia
on asa50 or 10B-1, it will the same as O ring. A well maintained non O ring or X ring
will outlast any Oring chain but boiling the chain is a pain in the arse.

Check if Diamond do a chromised pin version and if they do try it.

Typically an iwis chain for bikes is around £40 so try to find a stockist in USA.

Andy

andychain said:

PS If the moderaters want me off the forum I will leave

Click to expand...

No problem, Andy. Please feel free to tell us more-if you want?

L.A.B. (Mod.)

Hey Andy ,what is the preferred way to clean then lube a standard 530 ? I've never "boiled "a chain ,I believe it would be a grease ,sounds like you attempt it when the wife is not about and outdoors too.

Many years ago we used to buy Diamond chain from agriculture implement dealers. It came bulk in a large paper barrel. They'd whack off the length you asked for. Don't recall what it cost, but I remember it was cheaper than what the motorcycle dealer sold. The Diamond implement chain seemed to last as long as the Renold did, IIRC.

Hi

Funny I have 2 tins of linklife on the shelf & a single plate criterion electric ring to "boil" them on. I keep a can of modern spray to take to race meetings. Love dunking the chain, just not keen on wire brushing the crud off. I now have a tank of de greaser to get the worst off.
Only run 2 types of chain Iwis & Regina cos its gold (so vain)

Chris

andychain said:

A well maintained non O ring or X ring
will outlast any Oring chain but boiling the chain is a pain in the arse.

Andy

Click to expand...

Hi Andy - I've been reading your posts with interest.

You wrote a bad word: "boil"! I certainly won't go back to those bad old days.

I notice that many people hardly lubricate their chains, either on modern bikes with O ring chains or classics with non O ring chains. I see many classic racers where the only real lubrication the chain will ever get is what it was lubed with when it left the factory. What about putting up a set of maintenance tips on your website (sorry if you have, didn't see any) such as proper tensioning, lubrication type, how to clean and with what, lubrication intervals, when to replace, fitting a new O ring chain, etc. I think it would add to your business. On this subject, here's an interview with a Mr. Longoni, chief race technician for Regina. Would you agree with what he says?

http://www.motorcycle.com/products/all- ... -3524.html

Also, you will have a hard time persuading many Norton owners about primary chains when they can get belt drives. Not because chains are inferior but because with a belt drive you can change the drive ratio to give the old AMC gearbox an easier time and there is no oil to drip out of that sieve-like chain case!

Thanks for your informative posts so far and good luck with your business.

Dave

Thanks for the comments.

The Regina guy speaks good sense.

If you are riding your bike all weathers as a commuter O ring chain is a very good
idea. For older machines using 1/2 primary an O ring also makes very good sense.

My father advised me to have 2 chains, one one the bike and another sitting in a
tin of diesel engine oil. It has lots of detergent and worke quite weel. However that was
nearly 40 years ago and oil, even gear oil does not stay on very long.

Boiling still works and is the best way to lube a non O ring chain but as stated it is smelly
and is grounds for divorce.

There are many good sprays on the market with PTFE, anti fling and all sorts of stuff in. I
recommend one from Chaintec. It is sold in bearing distributors and is meant for fork lift chains.
Read the back and in the small print it also says especially good for motorcycle chain. Put motorcycle
in front of most products and the size halves and the price doubles.

The old Diamond was like the old Renold that is why I was cautious in my views on Diamond chain.

As for the primary I am not against belts but there are still problems with teeth shedding, according to T160
owners. Also if you want to keep the look of the bike and want a chain at least there is a bulletproof
solution.

I wont comment on other "lube systems" but just bear in mind the lube has to go between 2 plates you
cant get a fingure nail down, then do a right angle turn on to the pin and all this at umpty umpty MPH
centrifugal force acting in the opposite direction.

Do not lube O or X rings as you will never get the lube past the rings and anything you put on will
end up on the wheel or road.

Andy

By the way I am officially retired my "business" keeps my brain alert (maybe) and what the hell
is life for if you cant have some fun. I do what I want to do not what I have to.

Andy

CNW's X-ring conversion kit came with this chain. It's supposed to last considerably longer than O-ring style chains. What do you think about them?

Note--- CNW doesn't recommend soaking the chain in WD40. They recommend spraying it down to remove the protective shipping film. I did that a couple of times before it loosened up. Not sure why I wrote 'soak' on the box so figured I should clarify.

I bought a DID 530 chain many years ago and it was too wide. Went back to Reynolds because of that but now using RK cheapo chain. I am not riding a lot of miles per year anymore and I suspect it is the same for most. A 530 O-ring chain is too wide for most Nortons.

As for the primary I am not against belts but there are still problems with teeth shedding, according to T160
owners

Click to expand...

well Andy, then those Triumph guys don't know how to align or tension their belts yet

belt primaries in our Nortons have proved themselves over and over

I now have 22,000 miles on my belt primary and have not adjusted the tension from day one

oh, and I don't have an end plate on the front sprocket, dual adjusters make it easy so it runs true

andychain said:

Put motorcycle
in front of most products and the size halves and the price doubles.

Click to expand...

How true!

Welcome Andy, I've enjoyed this thread and have learned a couple of things along the way. Thanks for the input. Cj

Snorton74 said:

CNW's X-ring conversion kit came with this chain. It's supposed to last considerably longer than O-ring style chains. What do you think about them?

Click to expand...

This is what I was going to ask about, the 520 X-ring is supposed to be the "hot ticket" for Commando's, what do you think?

Vince

+1
being one of the Laverda guys i can attest to Andy's knowledge and good prices for his gear (plus anyone who signature pic is himself holding a pint is OK in my book)

- in fact i'm going to email him right after this for a new chain for my SF2 and my in process rebuild pos commando

andychain said:

...... I will leave but the Laverda guys have found me useful over
the past 4-5 years.

Click to expand...

So many questions and some nice comments.

Firstly dont get me started on O ring versus X ring versus W ring.

Basically the chain is common just the rings differ although the munafacturers will
say different. Racers will not in the main use O ring because of the power loss, the X and
W ring were an attempt to bring them round which failed, MY OPINION ONLY.

With the cost going up for each best stick with cheapest, good O ring bearing in mind there
are many different qualities. Soaking any chain, including O ring or X in WD40 is not a good
idea. O ring does sap HP and if you have a modern bike producing 100HP+ it makes little
difference to the average biker, put in on a 30HP classic it is another story.

I have absolutely no problem with belt drives but the reason they are so popular is that
nobody knew the chains available. As stated the average quality of chain has dropped over
the years down to a standard. Put the details for an old Triumph or Norton into a chain
calculation programe and will advise the use of another form of transmitting power.
An old Renold calculater puts forward the use of 1" pitch chain !!!!!!!!! Triplex chains
especially have suffered due to being not used by industry so the average triplex nowadays
is built to a price not a quality, iwis stopped producing all together. This has given
classic riders a problem as it was the chain of choice for many bike manufacturers.

Peeps got round the problem by jumping at belts whereas there are alternatives. Again I repeat
I have no problems with belts but some owners want to the bikes as standard as poss. For every
possitive tail about belts there is also a negative, but that applies to most things.

The RK chain is a reasonable cheap chain, I sell it and get good reports.

Have a good day and keep the questions coming.

Andy

andychain said:

Do not lube O or X rings as you will never get the lube past the rings and anything you put on will
end up on the wheel or road.

Andy

Click to expand...

Here's what Regina recommends:

"In the O-Ring chains, lubrication is provided by grease sealed in the working area by O-Rings.However, it is still necessary to provide periodic lubrication to the chain. Lubricant between roller and bushings will decrease friction and heat, and will improve the efficiency of the drive, extending chain and sprockets life.

Lubrication also keeps O-Rings in good condition and protects the metallic components from rust and corrosion."

Another view on aspects of chain maintenance, from Sprockets Unlimited (http://www.sprocketsunlimited.com/Chainmaintenance.html). Incidentally, they recommend Iwis chains.

"Lubrication and Cleaning:
Sealed 'O' and 'X' ring chains - Even though these chains are sometimes thought of as being maintenance free - it is important to ensure that the outside of these chains are kept well greased. Both the rubber seals and the exposed metals need to be kept lubricated and this job should be carried out every 250 - 300 miles or so, depending on conditions. If this type of chain is left on a bike which is not going to be used for several months, it is a very good idea to attend to lubricating the chain first.

"Split links:
Most non 'O' and 'X' ring chains are joined with a split link where the side plate is a 'loose' fit which is held in place by a spring clip. These links should be inspected regularly to ensure that the spring clip is still in place. It is a good idea to replace the whole split link (my emphasis) during the life of the chain as it is likely to wear at a faster rate than the rest of the chain. The premature wear of a split link is due to the nature of the 'loose' fit sideplate which by its nature, has more movement than the chain itself. This movement also creates flexion in the opposing sideplate (the fixed sideplate) which over time with use may cause fatigue to occur, finally resulting in fractures. These fractures are most likely to appear right accross the centre of the sideplate and when this happens ................. well need we say more!"