Chains

andychain said:

Think of chain as a load of bearings typicall y around 100 of them. To work the lube has to get to the bearing surfaces
that is the pin and the bush. The only way to do this is to boil in wax but it is smelly and grounds for divorce.

ALL other methods are technically better than nothing. O rings keep the lube where it is meant to be, on the pin a nd bush
but once it has gone, and over time it will get out, there is no way to replace it. Add to this the fact that the o rings hold the
chain together and there is no way seeing exactly how worn the chain, there can be problems. Most modern bikes have a
little sticker on the swinging arm saying "change chain" and it is interesting to note this is usually about on half the
available adjustment.

The only way to measure wear on an O ring is to mic the pins which means pulling it apart. I recently did a report on
a failed O ring and found it to be 6 times over the allowed wear. The pin had gone through the hardening and worn
until it snapped. The bike shop was astounded as it had only just given the a service !!!!!! This service involved cleaning
the chain and spraying it. They were not happy when I said this was a waiste of time but they still paid my bill.

Putoline do a boil in wax which I sell at cost. At full mark up folks would not buy it which is why shops dont stock it.

Andy

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I actually found a tin of the Putoline chain wax, sitting gathering dust on a showroom shelf, a few years back. Last one, spots of rust showing on the tin, I think they were glad to be rid of it I use it on the 520 RK standard chain on the Commando, it sticks well, and doesn't fling. i wash the chain thoroughly in petrol, rinse and let it dry, then heat up and simmer gently on a gas camp stove out in the open. No grounds for divorce, and it should last me for years yet. it appears to have a high graphite content, as it is very black, and is waxy, not greasy like the old Duckhams.

concours said:

andychain said:

Firstly I disagree with greasing O ring chains. The only point would be to stop corrosion. They are marketed
as maintainance free and that is what they are. To keep the O rings supple would be an almost impossible job.
Again my thoughts only.

Andy

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Thanks for joining us. Certainly, though, you're not advocating running O-ring chains DRY? :shock: Side plates, roller, sprockets all need lube...

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Any of the chain manufacturers and sprocket stockists whose sites I visited recommend periodic lubrication of O ring chains. But in Andy The Chain Man's view, they're all wrong, as we are, for believing them. I remain to be corrected if someone finds a motorcycle O ring chain manufacturer or sprocket stockist which recommends running their products dry.

Whole world knows the best thing for chains is enclosed oil bath. Only a few bikes have that for the final drive wheel though. Second to that is a constant oil supply in quanities to make a mess. After that grease soaked till it slings out.

Sealed chains stay sealed a pretty long time so better not let grease out of road grime or solvents in. The sealed side of 0 or x rings stay nice and lubed and sealed w/o any maintaince and nothing ya can do on the outside can improve this. There is some friction of outer plates rubbing twisting against each other but not very much after running removes high spots and self polishes burnishes. I can not see any use of external lube on good sealed chain but a feel good sense of extended chain life and to make nice to look at. In the only conditions makers to vendors and users reflexly state to clean off some way, is wet muddy, dry gritty conditions * after wards, to remove the grinding grit. If looking up chain reports in desert, beach, rock pit and Gravel or Mud conditions you will find they agree with my own experience, any thing that can hold grit is just adding to the subtracting of chain and sprocket life.

Anyone who thinks of wd40 as a lube is deluding themselves. Every chain lube site will tell ya to lube chain when warm not cold. Guess how long thin solvents stay on a warm chain. Its mainly to sell lube and flush out the last layer last lube left lingering. More thorough sites state 800 miles is expected interval to clean and lube chain, sealed or not. Hehe with that frequent cleaning and lubing I'd expect plain chain to last about as long and rather cheaper too. If external lube-solvent really extended sealed chain life then why bother sealing the real wear elements internally, duh. its same thing with vented belt primary, nice to look at and feel good about only and who in their right mind could contest that cooler belts is better and it is for sure, if exceeding their operation design, which even sealed primary does not.

Traditional thinking.
Newly wed asks her mom to settle an disagreement with her new husband on why she should always cut the ham in half life her mom before cooking, mom says "oh well back then we didn't have a pan big enough"

Am I missing something here? I would've thought that even a sealed, o- or x- or whatever chain would still need some form of lubrication for the contact between the rollers and the sprocket?

"Anyone who thinks of wd40 as a lube is deluding themselves."

Who said anything about lubing the chain with WD40? It's only sprayed on to remove the long term storage film before installation.

X-ring installation and maintenance....

Who said anything about lubing the chain with WD40? It's only sprayed on to remove the long term storage film before installation.

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Moody Blues lyrics ... confused between the dead or just sleeping". Glad you know a cleaning drying solvent agent vs real lube, but why or why would one want to remove a protective film - when every single mis - guided chain maintenance site says the main reason of sealed chain attention is to protect chain joints from exterior grime collection. Logic implies the wear points are inside sealed links not outside or what's the advantage of sealing in first place.

The actual lengthening of chains only occurs from grit wear or smashing down distortion of load bearing pins/plates contacts, by far most of that is from the pins/plates themselves in sealed chain, so seems silly to me to worry much about the outside - except to keep it clean looking and free of semi liquid grit grime collecting holding agent.

If ya look into many chain maintenance sites you may see they say Do Not Use a Brush on sealed chain. Ever wonder what that implies?

May i suggest ya do your own experiments, fastidious cleaning and partial lube attempts on bike or just leave alone dry as a bone and see who's camp ya end up in. I'd put on a new plain chain on Trixie right before she developed a primary cover bolt leak that wet chain almost as much as the proper protection amounts of wise Norton driper [that about everyone removes] to be pissed off in less than a Roadster tank its links lift over 1/3rd out of valleys so is trash [to use on mower] and showing signs of wearing teeth to thinner points.

Moly is life... whether greasing tie rod ends, ball joints or lubing your chain....

The nicest thing about your garage floor is it has just the right amount of patina. Isn't patina a neat word? I recall when I was painting cars some fool came to me with a rusted out Mustang. He was so proud because he had found one with "original" rust. Is there any other kind? Jack Nicholson, A Few Good Men

Bob if y ain't cleaning more than that much oil sling off bike each ride then ya just wasting ya time and money and making a lingering grinding paste residue you better clean off or keep flushing off. Moly is famous for initial lube on rebuilds but its not really lube that chains need as just not much motion in the links, its the grit not being flushed out the way that matters most. If ya keep researching deeper into chain dynamics ya might find I'm not so off the wall to either go full flushing oiling or grease soak or leave it be to fend for its self. If ya want best chain endurance keep the Norton dripper going as that came from a time chain life economy mattered and was not a factory over sight that everyone stops or removes because of the required fling mess.

Similar to blood transfusions thot to be so proven and obvious until studied deeper, ugh.

hobot said:

Bob if y ain't cleaning more than that much oil sling off bike each ride then ya just wasting ya time and money and making a lingering grinding paste residue you better clean off or keep flushing off. Moly is famous for initial lube on rebuilds but its not really lube that chains need as just not much motion in the links, its the grit not being flushed out the way that matters most. If ya keep researching deeper into chain dynamics ya might find I'm not so off the wall to either go full flushing oiling or grease soak or leave it be to fend for its self. If ya want best chain endurance keep the Norton dripper going as that came from a time chain life economy mattered and was not a factory over sight that everyone stops or removes because of the required fling mess.

Similar to blood transfusions thot to be so proven and obvious until studied deeper, ugh.

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I totally agree.... a fully enclosed oil bath roller chain would last really well. But, in the compromised world of final drive, the lubrication preventing metal to metal contact is admittedly compromised with SOME silica thrown up from the roadway... but the first outweighs the second, IMHO

JimC said:

The nicest thing about your garage floor is it has just the right amount of patina. Isn't patina a neat word? I recall when I was painting cars some fool came to me with a rusted out Mustang. He was so proud because he had found one with "original" rust. Is there any other kind? Jack Nicholson, A Few Good Men

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LOL, if these walls could talk... first BIG job was changing the way flapped out 327 out of my '69 Chevy C20 for a slightly less flapped out 307 someone gave me, so I could keep using the old plug to work on the house I could barely afford. 30 years ago.... :lol:

concours Bob I'm still hitting a wall with you altering me to Lee Peterson's recent Commando death merging with my brother Dale, and Rusty, and Tiger, and Gerry, and another Bob, Griffin plus his best friend and and others cycles took out, so bluntly ask that you continue your fastidious practice on this chain then leave the next one alone like me and compare mileage notes and let us know whose off their rocker on effort vs cost effectiveness. Still as purposeless senseless as life is some get by on distractions rituals of anointing oil on lingums while alive so do as ya must to get by best ya can. This implies you and your ride last long enough and we do too to hear how it works out.

Years ago a friend I rode with bought a new 1969 Commando. First ride his wife took with him, she was wearing white jeans. Boy, did she ever cuss he and the new Norton out. Chain oiler got plugged the very next day.

JimC said:

Years ago a friend I rode with bought a new 1969 Commando. First ride his wife took with him, she was wearing white jeans. Boy, did she ever cuss he and the new Norton out. Chain oiler got plugged the very next day.

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My '74 Stupid Glide dotted most of my GF's light color wardrobe. That's with the oiler shut off! :shock: Primary leaked, transmission as well.

Andy, what's your view of the various drip-oilers? And the type of oil that's best to use in them?

I've just resurrected the factory-fitted chain oiler on my Commando. To avoid the drip and fling, I put in a Hozelock tap -- the ones for the garden mini-irrigation system fit perfectly, and it seems to be working well with not much fling.

I can't understand the grief people put up with the chain throwing oil all over everything when for $30 you can replace the dang thing every year or even less, I mean it's less than filling up your SUV. But if you're on a cross country trip, I suppose it would make sense. Nuff said.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... ubrication
http://www.roadragecycling.com/2012/09/ ... ation.html

http://fagan.co.za/Bikes/Csuck/
Manufacturers make untenable claims about their lubricants' abilities in the presence of mud. Actual field testing and the slightest understanding of both the flow dynamics and the scouring abilities of a mud slurry within a chain's interior, debunk such claims for any of the lubricants commonly used. In fact, a good way to clean a chain really thoroughly is to go for a muddy ride and head for all mud and water puddles ; thereafter use detergent and a hose ; the chain will be clean and free of lubricant both inside and out ; even the old caked gunk will be gone.

http://www2.dupont.com/Consumer_Lubrica ... saver.html

No mess whatsoever and the xring chain lasted about 25,000 miles. From here on, that is probably long enough to see most of us out :mrgreen:

Glen

“Chain grease is not so efficient. It cannot get into the tight clearances between moving parts and the most good it can ever do is keep the chain's side plates from rusting in the winter. “

http://www.motorcycle.com/products/all- ... -3524.html

Re; Mr. Longoni's opinion of using chain grease might be correct when it’s put on cold , but the term "boiling the chain in proper chain grease" it will find all the gaps when left long enough in a hot container of grease on non-O ring chains.
This may be grounds for divorce if you try to do it with ‘er in doors-come on lads do it outside on a camping stove instead and save yourself a load of grief :!: :?

Bernhard said:

“Chain grease is not so efficient. It cannot get into the tight clearances between moving parts and the most good it can ever do is keep the chain's side plates from rusting in the winter. “

http://www.motorcycle.com/products/all- ... -3524.html

Re; Mr. Longoni's opinion of using chain grease might be correct when it’s put on cold , but the term "boiling the chain in proper chain grease" it will find all the gaps when left long enough in a hot container of grease on non-O ring chains.
This may be grounds for divorce if you try to do it with ‘er in doors-come on lads do it outside on a camping stove instead and save yourself a load of grief :!: :?

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The link is broken. I am interested in reading it.