Back on the Norton!

TonyA said:

You have to wonder if they did anything other than listen to it and say its ok ?

Click to expand...

Whatever they did, now I’ve heard what they should sound like, they simply didn’t do what they shuda !

I think (in fact I know) that those boyz were under the cosh to get warranty bikes back out as cheaply as possible…

Fast Eddie said:

Whatever they did, now I’ve heard what they should sound like, they simply didn’t do what they shuda !

I think (in fact I know) that those boyz were under the cosh to get warranty bikes back out as cheaply as possible…

Click to expand...

I am in the process of testing the Belray Sport Transmission fluid in the trans/primary of the 961. I remember Cliffa tried it , didn't like it and quickly changed back. But I will give it a deeper dive.

TonyA said:

I am in the process of testing the Belray Sport Transmission fluid in the trans/primary of the 961. I remember Cliffa tried it , didn't like it and quickly changed back. But I will give it a deeper dive.

Click to expand...

Hello Tony,

I use the Bel Ray since 2013.
For me it works well.

TonyA said:

I am in the process of testing the Belray Sport Transmission fluid in the trans/primary of the 961. I remember Cliffa tried it , didn't like it and quickly changed back. But I will give it a deeper dive.

Click to expand...

What did Cliffa not like about it?
Did he feel that it negatively effected transmission shifting (how), clutch engagement (how), etc..?

BritTwit said:

What did Cliffa not like about it?
Did he feel that it negatively effected transmission shifting (how), clutch engagement (how), etc..?

Click to expand...

I will report back when I've done enough testing to give a qualified opinion of it .

BritTwit said:

What did Cliffa not like about it?
Did he feel that it negatively effected transmission shifting (how), clutch engagement (how), etc..?

Click to expand...

All of the above actually. It made no difference to the primary noise (which was my main purpose for trying it), the clutch didn’t seem to clear properly so it would embarrassingly “graunch“ into first gear and shifting didn’t seem as clean. I was pretty disappointed TBH.

TonyA said:

I am in the process of testing the Belray Sport Transmission fluid in the trans/primary of the 961. I remember Cliffa tried it , didn't like it and quickly changed back. But I will give it a deeper dive.

Click to expand...

I’m a fan of the Bel Ray but I can’t see it curing the Norton clatter. Whatever causes that is beyond oil type IMO.

Awesome 200km blast today, less the occasional problem of selecting first gear. Happens infrequently, but when it does it’s a real pain - just the mashing of cogs and a failure to select. Rolling it forward whilst selecting normally does the trick although today that did’nt work well either. Nor did selecting 2nd.

I will have another go at adjusting the gear selection rod, although I’m pretty sure that I need to remove the engine casing and centralise the internal gear selector arm (incorrect nomenclature) - a known problem from memory. Think there’s a Cootes manual on the process.

Stephen_Spencer said:

Awesome 200km blast today, less the occasional problem of selecting first gear. Happens infrequently, but when it does it’s a real pain - just the mashing of cogs and a failure to select. Rolling it forward whilst selecting normally does the trick although today that did’nt work well either. Nor did selecting 2nd.

I will have another go at adjusting the gear selection rod, although I’m pretty sure that I need to remove the engine casing and centralise the internal gear selector arm (incorrect nomenclature) - a known problem from memory. Think there’s a Cootes manual on the process.

Click to expand...

Fast Eddie said:

I’m a fan of the Bel Ray but I can’t see it curing the Norton clatter. Whatever causes that is beyond oil type IMO.

Click to expand...

I hoping for any improvement whether its noise or function . I will have something in a couple weeks . I have had nothing but motor oil in my primary for more than 19,000 miles , so I will note all the changes.

Stephen_Spencer said:

Awesome 200km blast today, less the occasional problem of selecting first gear. Happens infrequently, but when it does it’s a real pain - just the mashing of cogs and a failure to select. Rolling it forward whilst selecting normally does the trick although today that did’nt work well either. Nor did selecting 2nd.

I will have another go at adjusting the gear selection rod, although I’m pretty sure that I need to remove the engine casing and centralise the internal gear selector arm (incorrect nomenclature) - a known problem from memory. Think there’s a Cootes manual on the process.

Click to expand...

Yes Steve , There is a Coote's manual. Can I ask how close to the primary case cover does your shift lever get when you are shifiting from N to 1 and from N to 2 ? Remember to center the mechanisim in 2nd gear during adjustment (in the procedure) , at this point the selector lever arm should be pointing straight down..

cliffa said:

All of the above actually. It made no difference to the primary noise (which was my main purpose for trying it), the clutch didn’t seem to clear properly so it would embarrassingly “graunch“ into first gear and shifting didn’t seem as clean. I was pretty disappointed TBH.

Click to expand...

Hi Cliffa , Sounds like a horrible experience . Can I ask how long you ran it before changing it out ?

TonyA said:

Hi Cliffa , Sounds like a horrible experience . Can I ask how long you ran it before changing it out ?

Click to expand...

Hi Tony, probably only 200 miles or so.

I was unhappy with it so drained it and found an incredible amount of metallic content (I don't think the oil had anything to do with that though)

TonyA said:

Yes Steve , There is a Coote's manual. Can I ask how close to the primary case cover does your shift lever get when you are shifiting from N to 1 and from N to 2 ? Remember to center the mechanisim in 2nd gear during adjustment (in the procedure) , at this point the selector lever arm should be pointing straight down..

Click to expand...

Hey Tony,

As you can see, the sleeved section of my gear selector rod just contacts the underside of the primary case when 1st is selected. This is usually sufficient movement to engage first gear without difficulty. Just occasionally a set of circumstances must exist (gear positioning, bike aspect, rear wheel position etc) where that movement is not quite sufficient to engage first and I get that graunching sound that all riders hate. Naturally, it only occurs in a bikers spot where others are watching your departure! Hasn’t happened for ages.

I must get around to removing the primary case - will have it polished at the same time - and set the gear selector arm to the centre of its travel; in second as you point out. Looks like an easy enough task to complete. There is no difficulty with rod travel to engage 2nd, so I’m not sure why, when this problem manifests with first, I can sometimes have difficulty with second. Once in motion the gearbox is slick as you like.

My guess is that the internal gear selector arm was never set correctly during initial assembly, or I have disturbed it - I’ve grounded the gear change lever a few times which results in quite a jolt back through the mechanism.

Stephen_Spencer said:

Hey Tony,

As you can see, the sleeved section of my gear selector rod just contacts the underside of the primary case when 1st is selected. This is usually sufficient movement to engage first gear without difficulty. Just occasionally a set of circumstances must exist (gear positioning, bike aspect, rear wheel position etc) where that movement is not quite sufficient to engage first and I get that graunching sound that all riders hate. Naturally, it only occurs in a bikers spot where others are watching your departure! Hasn’t happened for ages.

I must get around to removing the primary case - will have it polished at the same time - and set the gear selector arm to the centre of its travel; in second as you point out. Looks like an easy enough task to complete. There is no difficulty with rod travel to engage 2nd, so I’m not sure why when this problem manifests with first, I can sometimes have difficulty with second. Once in motion the gearbox is slick as you like.

My guess is that the internal gear selector arm was never set correctly during initial assembly, or I have disturbed it - I’ve grounded the gear change lever a few times which results in quite a jolt back through the mechanism.

View attachment 105536

Click to expand...

Can you not move the shifter output shaft arm forward 1 spline?
When did they switch the shifter linkage rod to the style you have?

Voodooo said:

Can you not move the shifter output shaft arm forward 1 spline?
When did they switch the shifter linkage rod to the style you have?

Click to expand...

Hey Voodoo,

Don’t think it’s as easy as shifting the output shaft arm - that was my initial thought way back when the occurrences of shift rod failure started to occur. We discussed this extensively on the forum as it was quite common - I had two fail.

I’ll dig up the old post and see what was said but I think the outcome was to put the internal gear selector arm to the centre of its arc, whilst in second gear, which leaves the output shaft arm at 6 o’clock and with sufficient arc of movement to select gears without contacting the primary case.

I think the linkage style has been the same throughout, less very early models that had a reverse type setup. Mine looks different as I sleeved/pinned it at the point of failure, to make sure that it didn’t strand me again.

Stephen_Spencer said:

Hey Voodoo,

Don’t think it’s as easy as shifting the output shaft arm - that was my initial thought way back when the occurrences of shift rod failure started to occur. We discussed this extensively on the forum as it was quite common - I had two fail.

I’ll dig up the old post and see what was said but I think the outcome was to put the internal gear selector arm to the centre of its arc, whilst in second gear, which leaves the output shaft arm at 6 o’clock and with sufficient arc of movement to select gears without contacting the primary case.

I think the linkage style has been the same throughout, less very early models that had a reverse type setup. Mine looks different as I sleeved/pinned it at the point of failure, to make sure that it didn’t strand me again.

Click to expand...

My Commando is a 2016, I had to move the shift arm forward one spline when I took delivery of the bike because is was slightly less than 6 O’clock

Voodooo said:

My Commando is a 2016, I had to move the shift arm forward one spline when I took delivery of the bike because is was slightly less than 6 O’clock

Click to expand...

The shifting rod is at an extreme bend (curve) and it should not be . Steve , you may need to bend the rod back slightly after you make the internal adjustment. Or there may be enough adjustment on the lock nut . Maybe buy a new one from Norton , but they have changed the ball and socket design as an improvement. This may require additional parts (no big deal though) . Have you tried moving the shift arm by one spline already ? The shift arm or rod should not contact the case in either dirction when shifting .

Hey guys.

Haven’t tried moving the shift arm but Voodoo has, so I’ll give it a go when I get a moment - won’t be able to test ride for a couple of weeks though. I have ordered a couple in the past having had two fail - not surprisingly, all were a different arc. I still have one and for some reason still carry it in my jacket just in case - I’ve been stranded by this fault twice.

My sleeved version is pretty solid though so should be all good. Don’t think there is any need to change the curve, won’t discount it though.

I’ll let you know how I get on. Thanks for the advice.

Steve.

Al's#5 said:

Honda relays finally received, genuine Honda parts. Packet says made in Japan but the relays say China, look better than std. Omron. Starts, runs and idles ok though so off for a blast!

Click to expand...

Running a dream! Weekend blast to the cabin to spend some time with the family and she runs great. All's well! Coming back over the Moors I had the road to myself, early start, so I was able to push it a bit, not a Modern sports bike fast but the definitely the fastest in my shed! Old school biking at its best!

Promise of sunshine so, chain oiled and tensioned, tank filled and off for a blast. Moor road out, coast road back! She revs eagerly, shifts gear smoothly and handles a dream, what's not to like! Here's hoping for a good summer.