Anti-wetsump & Peace-of-mind switch
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Ron L
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I believe Danno's comment was tongue-in-cheek. If you don't remember to turn the tap off the valve is useless.baz said:
If such modifications give you peace of mind so be it. I'll just check the tank if it has been sitting for a few weeks and if I see the gauze in the bottom I'll kick it through a few times until it is covered, then switch on the ignition and go.
acadian
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Stillreel said:
Might want to look at the timing cover mod offered by AMR and others, at the end of the day, switches fail and humans are fallible. The timing case ball valve is the safest route (and eliminates all the extra plumbing/wiring involved in your solution).
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acadian said:
My MkIII was wet-sumping pretty badly (due to the little piston that is supposed to block the oil from the tank being GONE!).
I sent the timing cover to AMR for their ball-and-spring modification.
Eh voila! Not one drop of oil lost into the sump in several months .... Best $85 you can spend ...
Lannis
Peter R
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Lannis said:
Lannis, a lot has been written about these anti-wet sump valves, and I believe that the pro's and cons deeply divide the classic british bike frathernity.
After the bike has been parked for several months, a vacuum in the suction line downstream of the anti-wet sump valve can occur, and the oil pump will not be able to pump any oil as result.
I personally rather live with a wet sumped engine than facing the concequence of a pump that tries to displace air instead of oil.
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Ron L said:
Actually, I thought the black wire was power. With positive ground, a kill wire should be red. Of course, you can make it anything you want. If it's a kill wire that reminds you (after a few frustrating kicks and no pop) to turn the valve on, ok, but it should be red.
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Rule 1 of interlocks and microswitches is they work until the day you need them.
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Peter R said:
The AMR mod places the valve on the outlet of the pump so there is not a possibility of it air-locking the pump as there is with the valve in the suction hose. There is also no loss of oil pressure.
But, Personally I just let the engine wet-sump.
I figure if the engine has sat long enough for the oil to drain from the tank, then it has also drained from the camshaft and lifters. When the cases are wet-sumped then the cam gets an oil bath as soon as the crank turns.
Jim
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+1 You hit the bulls eye Jim.comnoz said:
That's my thoughts against using the anti sump switch/valve. I would not put one on my bike and like you said, if there is excess oil in the sump it gets flung up to vital part right at start up.
Cheers,
Thomas
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Peter R said:
Peter -
I'm very familiar with the dangers of putting a check-valve in the intake line of a rotary oil pump. Matter of fact, when my BSA A65 engine was rebuilt, the rebuilder put such a valve (from a well-known maker) into the line for me.
On the second ride from new, the pump failed to suck the valve open. I still had the temporary oil pressure gauge hooked up, looked down after a couple miles, and it was reading "0". I shut the engine off and coasted back home, downhill thank goodness. Removed the valve from the line, restarted it, and the pressure picked up instantly.
The engine only lasted about 5,000 miles, however, and had to be rebuilt again (scarred big ends). So I've had one engine ruined by using one of the "inline" anti-wet-sump valves.
As has been mentioned by others, though, the MkIII valve (and as modified by AMR) is NOT the same thing, and there's no danger of an air-lock in the intake.
My sense of mechanical sympathy prevents me from starting an engine with 2+ liters of oil in the sump where it doesn't belong. I hear lots of tales of "It's OK, it's better as a matter of fact", and a few tales of hydraulic lock and bent engine components. Simpler just to fix the engine to work as designed, I think.
Lannis
ashman
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If you ride your Norton regularly then you shouldn't have any problems with wet sumping, for 37 years I never had a problem only now that I don't ride it as much these days as my Thruxton is my every day ride now, but when I plan on taking a ride on my Norton I check the oil the night before as well tyres etc and if the tank is down I just drain the sump, only take a few seconds to remove the sump plug, its no big deal.
Ashley
Ashley
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Lannis said:
There are some engines that could hydraulic lock with engine oil but not the Commando with a standard sized oil tank.
The only way you could get a hydraulic lock on a Commando is with fuel on top of the pistons. [and that is instantly fatal]
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Just to follow up on my original post; wet slumping was issue. Burning too much oil on the start up (combination guide and valve wear, rings and wet sump) required work. Opening up the crank drain resulted 1/2 pint +. As such, the shut off valve seemed to be a good idea. However, given my advanced decrepitude, I was rightfully concerned about starting the the machine with out checking to see if I had turn the oil flow valve back on. I was wise (very wise) to have installed this safe - check.
So bottomline is that this simple $3.00 ($2.50 shutoff + $0.50 microswitch) fix works really well. Don't spend more if not needed.
BC
So bottomline is that this simple $3.00 ($2.50 shutoff + $0.50 microswitch) fix works really well. Don't spend more if not needed.
BC
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ashman said:
If you have 6 different bikes you ride for 20,000 miles a year, it could STILL be months between rides on the Norton, and the opportunity for wet-sumping.
It's not a "big deal", true, to drain the oil from the sump, but I have to either
1) lie down on the concrete floor and crawl around OR
2) Take down whatever other bike is on the lift so I can roll the Norton up
3) Scrupulously clean around the drain plug
4) Scrupulously clean a container
5) Drain the oil into the container and pour it back into the tank
6) Take the Norton back down off of the lift and put the other bike back.
And even then, you're risking getting dirt in the oil, or have to throw away $8 worth of oil.
Or ride it wet-sumped and hope it's OK.
For gosh sakes, why not just fix the problem and don't have to worry about wet-sumping at ALL? If people would spend a few hours and the price of a steak dinner for two these days, and FIX THE BIKE, there wouldn't be an issue.
Maybe it's more fun to talk about it than fix it, though. That's allowed under British Bike Rules, I suppose ....
Lannis
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ewgoforth said:
It doesn't take much oil in the cases to touch the crank. Less than a quart.
A couple quarts of oil in the cases will make the engine harder to kick through.
It will flood the cylinder walls [and cam] when it starts.
If the rings are worn then you will get excess smoke until the scavenge pump catches up.
If the cases are full of oil then the air pressure rise when the pistons go to BDC may blow out the main seal if it is not glued in place.
I used to use a valve in my old N15. I hung the key on it when I shut it off.
Now I just rely on the crankcase reed breather to clear the cases when it starts. Jim
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