my 74 has been fitted with an Alton electric start about 2 years ago with a RGM belt drive has been faultless but after leaving it standing for about a month outside i have a problem . It started ok as usual then stalled as not warmed up properly ,the starter motor sounds if it is spinning but not turning the engine, if i take the plugs out the engine will turn over i have taken the case of no visible signs just clutch dust everywhere any ideas before i pull it to bits in mid winter !
alton starting problems
- Thread starter phippsy
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After you have charged the battery try the starter again. This time if it won't turn the motor take out the plug in the primary cover used for checking the ignition timing and you should be able to see the chain for the starter moving. If the chain is moving but the engine is not turning try removing the sparkplugs to see if the engine will spin with no compression to fight against this would point to the sprag clutch. If the chain is not moving there is an overload device (which has been altered a couple of times) which may need looking at. This is assuming the fault is with the Alton system an not something else.
Unfortunately the weak link in the Alton system has been the 'double gear' which meshes with the starter motor and transmits the power to the chain driving the sprag clutch. In order to provide some protection to the the starter motor from kick back etc the double gear has an elastomer in the gear housing isolating it from the sprocket which cushions the starter motor from any nasty effects of, say a backfire . They have been through 4 or 5 iterations of the elastomer/gear combination and are replacing early type gears which fail with the latest version, without charge, except for shipping; or at least they did with mine the first time it failed. After the second failure I've just left it alone and reverted to the human leg (as opposed to the electric one 
) until I can be bothered to take the primary cover off and have a look.
If your problem is the double gear then there will be a god-awful rattling graunch noise when the starter spins. If that isn't the case then it will be another issue.
Hope this helps.
) until I can be bothered to take the primary cover off and have a look. If your problem is the double gear then there will be a god-awful rattling graunch noise when the starter spins. If that isn't the case then it will be another issue.
Hope this helps.
I don't see the shock absorber, which is really a "fuse", as a weak link. It is meant to protect the mechanical parts in case the bike backfires. I have seen and heard some pretty gruesome stories of broken legs and thorn ligaments or for the lucky ones, pulled muscles. A fuse or circuit breaker is not a "weak link" in an electrical system, why would it be one for the Alton Starter?
My own starter shredded the elastomers when trying to start with different carbs and setting up the timing, better those little parts than my leg or ripping something appart. I didn't have any spares, but I had some rubber hose with a close enough to 10mm outside diameter (I think it is 3/16" hose), cut it the right width and put it in. I was up and running in a short time.
Jean
My own starter shredded the elastomers when trying to start with different carbs and setting up the timing, better those little parts than my leg or ripping something appart. I didn't have any spares, but I had some rubber hose with a close enough to 10mm outside diameter (I think it is 3/16" hose), cut it the right width and put it in. I was up and running in a short time.
Jean
Get a 1975-6 inner and outer primary cover,use a high output starter, and save a lot of money. The basic fault in the original e-start was the gear material which was prone to explode,thus making it a starter assist,kick while hitting the button. After the Alton unit failed in my bike,a bmw mechanic who rebuilt my motor told me about the 75-6 e-start set up using original Norton parts, genius! Has been working now for 4 years,no problems,upgraded to a lithium battery's ,( they Just give them away) but no more problems. I put the extra $$ into dunstall rearsets,new Amal carbs ,rebuilt the front master and Avon tires. Now I'm ripping up the ct back roads like my Ducati St and the Norton sounds great on song,with no belts to worry about. Now I remember why I spent 1763.27$ back in 1974! The unapproachable ! Ride em,don't hide em!!!
Kawasaki 1200 Eddie Lawson ZRX
Norton 850-1974
Ducati ST2-1999
Ducati 750 monster 2000
GS 1100E Suzuki Dragster 1278cc 8 second ET regularly in Lebanon valley NY
Kawasaki 1200 Eddie Lawson ZRX
Norton 850-1974
Ducati ST2-1999
Ducati 750 monster 2000
GS 1100E Suzuki Dragster 1278cc 8 second ET regularly in Lebanon valley NY
Bone sr said:
New holes would need to be drilled in Mk3 case as it has 4 and earlier crank case has only 3 but more importantly the mk3 (factory) e/s crank is different from the earlier type as it has a longer drive side shaft to hold primary sprocket starter sprag (earlier don't have this) and alternator rotor. It is possible to fit but its not just a matter of swapping primary case (like Alton) lots of other bits are different primary chain tensioner mean gearbox is fixed etc etc. But it the cost an hassle of changing crank that's the big issue.
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In October the double gear plugs failed in my Alton starter after not many miles from new. There's room for six plugs but only three had been fitted. Alton supplied me with replacements after a very long delay. This time I've fitted all six so I hope it will last a bit longer.
While I was waiting I took a sample of one of the broken plugs (most of the material had been reduced to dust) to a local engineering plastics supplier for testing, and they said it was polyurethane with a hardness of 95 Shore A. I bought a length of rod to make up my own spare plugs so as not to be dependent on Alton's slow service in future. The diameter of the plugs is 10mm but I could only get 12mm rod with the required hardness, so had to get it turned down.
While I was waiting I took a sample of one of the broken plugs (most of the material had been reduced to dust) to a local engineering plastics supplier for testing, and they said it was polyurethane with a hardness of 95 Shore A. I bought a length of rod to make up my own spare plugs so as not to be dependent on Alton's slow service in future. The diameter of the plugs is 10mm but I could only get 12mm rod with the required hardness, so had to get it turned down.
My solution to starting problems has been to fit the RGM version of the T160 folding kickstart, the extra length gives you that leverage that makes starting my Norton a 1 or 2 kick breeze, at around £100 it very much cheaper than fitting an aftermarket ES.
Fast Eddie
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chasbmw said:
+1 !
trident sam
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Well said Jean !
In my case , having a missus with a slipped disc trying to get off a stalled, rearset and pannier/equipped bike in a hurry at lights/docks etc while I start the bike with an extended kick start lever is not an option any more. My electric start bikes are there for a reason.
sam
In my case , having a missus with a slipped disc trying to get off a stalled, rearset and pannier/equipped bike in a hurry at lights/docks etc while I start the bike with an extended kick start lever is not an option any more. My electric start bikes are there for a reason.
sam
Jeandr said:
That's true enough, but I am not getting any younger myself and dreaded kick starting my new to me Commando, with the original Kickstart lever the bike was a bear to kick over, fitting the RGM lever lever was a substantial improvement and has meant that I can put off spending lots of cash on an electrical leg for a few years more.
It may sound as if I'm pushing RGM's products, but in terms of making these bikes easier to use, they produce a clutch arm fitment for the handlebars with an improved leverage, giving a lighter clutch pull, nicely made in black or plain alloy and at a cost of £19.00, very much cheaper than going down the Hyraudlic clutch route.
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I will be fitting a CNW starter to my '72 Dunstall just to make living with it easier. My knees are still holding up at age 61, and I continue to kick start my Velo and Trident. The Dunstall has rear-sets, and the RH side peg needs to be folded up to operate the kick start. You have to make damn sure you don't bump the gear change on the way down. I am using the Norvil "cranked" gear lever with one down and three up, and the kick start lever comes very close the the gear shift lever. The clip-ons make it a tricky reach for me, and due to the Dunstall centerstand, starting it on the stand isn't a great option either. The act of trying to blip the throttle while it's warming up, and either reaching down with my right hand to fold the peg while holding throttle with my left, or leaning the bike over while running an catching enough of the folding footpeg to push it back down has left me nearly toppling over a couple of times, especially on wet pavement or surfaces that are less than ideal. The bottom line for me is that I love to ride the bike, and this will make the whole start up less of a disaster waiting to happen. I love kick starting bikes, but on this one, the love is just not there!
Brithit said:
Now try to sell a bike to someone used to push buttons on everything they own, that is like saying how easy it is to cook a full meal including dessert vs popping some food in the microwave, an ES on a Norton makes it that much easier to live with, simple as that.
Jean
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Jeandr said:
Such a person will probably have problems with an old bike, even an electric start one.
My pre-Mk3 goes well enough, but I always found it difficult to kickstart and can only do this when it is on the centrestand and I am standing at the side of it. Also always worried about stalling it at the lights or, as I did once, at the head of the queue at a railway level-crossing.
Thought that the Alton starter system was an extravagance, but then realised that it was cheaper than selling it and buying an electric start bike that I would not enjoy half as much. Fitted the system and it worked OK at first, but then had a number of problems all of which were resolved with Alton.
It has been well worth the cost and effort and makes using the bike much more enjoyable for me. Also, I have a kickstarter as backup unlike on my airhead BMW.
PS Whilst writing this I see that the spellchecker did not like the word 'kickstarter' and suggested three options, one of which was 'kicks tart' - not very PC!
Thought that the Alton starter system was an extravagance, but then realised that it was cheaper than selling it and buying an electric start bike that I would not enjoy half as much. Fitted the system and it worked OK at first, but then had a number of problems all of which were resolved with Alton.
It has been well worth the cost and effort and makes using the bike much more enjoyable for me. Also, I have a kickstarter as backup unlike on my airhead BMW.
PS Whilst writing this I see that the spellchecker did not like the word 'kickstarter' and suggested three options, one of which was 'kicks tart' - not very PC!
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