961 is back !

Stephen_Spencer · Sep 18, 2023

Fast Eddie said:
Turbo chargers are uncouth.

Gentlemen prefer superchargers…

View attachment 109909

Yes in-deedy FE! Would love to experience this beast

!!

Fast Eddie · Sep 18, 2023

Stephen_Spencer said:
Yes in-deedy FE! Would love to experience this beast !!

View attachment 109912

According to MCN the blown H2 makes just under 250rwhp on the dyno. The TTS blown R3 produces 342rwhp…

It also benefits from being long, and heavy, and having a ridiculously large rear tyre, so when combined with the excellent factory traction control, it is able to put that power down like nothing else on two wheels !

ashman · Sep 18, 2023

You would have to strap your hands to the handle bars just to hold on with that much rwhp lol.

Stephen_Spencer · Sep 18, 2023

Would seriously love to ride a bike with that much power, just for the experience!

Not at all interested in ownership of a modern rocket ship anymore though. Just walk past hyper-sports bikes without a glance now - can’t really explain it. There was a time when sports bikes were all I was interested in.

Fast Eddie · Sep 18, 2023

Stephen_Spencer said:
Would seriously love to ride a bike with that much power, just for the experience!

Not at all interested in ownership of a modern rocket ship anymore though. Just walk past hyper-sports bikes without a glance now - can’t really explain it. There was a time when sports bikes were all I was interested in.

You, me, and the majority of the biking population it seems. It’s well known that sports bikes are a dying genre.

And IMO it’s no mystery at all. Modern sports bikes are SO fast. I defy ANYONE to be able to ride one properly on the road. And even if you can, you bloody well shouldn’t ! And I defy 99% of the riding population to be able to ride one properly on the track too.

Meanwhile, none sports bikes have all got so much better, with handling, braking and performance that is easily good enough for 99% of riders 99% of the time.

So, frankly, there’s just no point in a sports bike anymore.

For me, they’re dangerous, they just egg me on further and further until I’m going much faster than I realise, and I do NOT want that.

As daft as it might sound to some, things like the R3 actually make more sense. They don’t egg you on in the same way, it’s easy to ride one as a fast cruiser, having fun without being stooopid, and then, once in a while, when safe to do so, it’s great fun to be able to unleash some silly bhp just for the sheer hell of it !

Stephen_Spencer · Sep 18, 2023

Agree with all of that FE. Maybe, also, some bikers might be a bit ‘over’ the contemporary offerings looking more like they belong in a superhero movie!

Looking back maybe - everything that is old is new again? Except the old tossers (that’s you and me) that rode them the first time around!

Stephen_Spencer · Sep 20, 2023

Seems to be quite a lot of movement ref Birmingham 961 sales across on FB and elsewhere, which is great news. Difficult to tell of course.

Wonder if sales are where Norton expected them to be at this juncture. Would love to be a ‘fly on the wall‘ in one of their production/sales meetings.

Voodooo · Sep 20, 2023

Voodooo said:
It also appears that TVS failed on the improvements. Look at the new owners that have been having the same similar issues as Donington owners.

Why the thumbs down SS?
The truth is out there with the new owners. Can’t deny it.

Stephen_Spencer · Sep 20, 2023

Voodooo said:
Why the thumbs down SS?
The truth is out there with the new owners. Can’t deny it.

Cos I’m not sure that a couple of isolated instances (2 on the same bike), occurring within the warranty period, prior to the first service where these can be looked at, represents a complete failure on Norton’s re-engineering process.

Stephen_Spencer · Sep 20, 2023

‘Appears’ Voodoo!?

Voodooo · Sep 20, 2023

Stephen_Spencer said:
‘Appears’ Voodoo!?

I don’t follow.
Please explain.

Voodooo · Sep 20, 2023

Stephen_Spencer said:
Seems to be quite a lot of movement ref Birmingham 961 sales across on FB and elsewhere, which is great news. Difficult to tell of course.

Wonder if sales are where Norton expected them to be at this juncture. Would love to be a ‘fly on the wall‘ in one of their production/sales meetings.

View attachment 109947

How many bikes have they sold? I’ll say, not many.
Plus they were seeming desperate by offering discounts so early in the game.

Stephen_Spencer · Sep 21, 2023

I can only post live to this site intermittently - hence post attached as image. Anyone else having site running issues?

cliffa · Sep 21, 2023

I’m not aware of any issues Stephen.

I have to agree with you, I’m only aware of one bike having two “issues”. Particles (not swarf) in the tranny oil after a couple of hundred miles, which Norton have advised is normal, and high revving, which may have been resolved by now.

One guy just returned from a tour of France with no issues.

Voodooo · Sep 21, 2023

Stephen_Spencer said:
View attachment 109948
I can only post live to this site intermittently - hence post attached as image. Anyone else having site running issues?

Playing this game?
Nobody is playing any games.
Just as FE said, it’s more than one bike and it’s the same common issues. Why can you never see past this and constantly defend TVS. I really don’t understand you at times.

BritTwit · Sep 21, 2023

Fast Eddie said:
I don’t know what ‘game’ you’re talking about Stephen?!

I am referring to the following:

1. There have been reports of the excessive primary noise.

2. There have been reports of the sudden very high idle kicking in.

These are both past issues that plagued some Donington bikes. IF the root causes had been engineered out, they would not re occur. Therefore, either these issues have not been addressed by re-engineering, or the solution has failed to deliver. I’m sorry if this offends, but it’s as simply as that !

This does NOT mean that TVS have not done many other good engineering mods. But it does mean that they haven’t (successfully) done the above.

Regarding the swarf in the gearbox, I actually agree with both sides, yes it’s clear that in 2023, a motorcycle transmission produced in a state of the art factory should not have swarf in it. Period. But then again, I’ve seen YouTube videos showing oil samples from various new motorcycles showing very surprising results of contamination of all sorts. So I also agree that I’d change the oil, get it serviced, put some miles on it, and see how it beds in. And my hypothesis is that it will be perfectly fine.

And yes, I’ve had issues with the site too, email Jerry, he can sort it.

I'm of the opinion that so long as there is an intermediate gear in the primary, there will be no effective cure to the loud noise emanating from the primary. I don't think the noise is a harbinger of impending failure, just an artifact of an unfortunate design shortcoming that even a backlash mechanism can not resolve.

The "wild" idle is another matter. This is almost certainly the result of the poor integration of the ECU programming, fuel mapping, and the array of sensors. i.e. temperature, O2, etc. I wonder if any users of the Delta 400 ECU experience the wild idle. I doubt it. If Norton switched the 961 to the Delta 400, or the EFI system that the V4 uses, this problem would probably be history. Yes it would add cost to the 961, but if they were serious about eliminating this issue, well it would be gone by now.

TonyA · Sep 21, 2023

Fast Eddie said:
Did anyone claim ‘complete failure of Nortons re-engineering process’ ?

You watch FB as I do, so you’ll also know it’s more than one bike Stephen.

How many, I don’t know. It’s certainly not all of them, that’s for sure. But it’s certainly more than one.

But it didn’t happen on all Donington bikes either, in fact many were / are still fine.

But the rub is that the same issues are still there on some bikes, just as they were before, so one thing is clear: the root cause of these issues has NOT been addressed at an engineering level.

THAT is whats disappointing.

I would really love to try (if it fits) a new Birmingham Norton clutch assembly in my bike . A properly designed clutch for this bike would do wonders in my view.

TonyA · Sep 21, 2023

Fast Eddie said:
In particular I am referring to the following:

1. There have been reports of the excessive primary noise.

2. There have been reports of the sudden very high idle kicking in.

Hello FE , I understand completely what you are saying. But I am willing to wager (a cold pint) that whatever the new TVS bikes are experiencing are nothing compared to what a lot of our older 961 had to deal with. So , there's a cold pint for me if the New TVS bikes are generally much better than they were. I wish I could sample one and within 1 minute I would know.

Voodooo · Sep 21, 2023

TonyA said:
Hello FE , I understand completely what you are saying. But I am willing to wager (a cold pint) that whatever the new TVS bikes are experiencing are nothing compared to what a lot of our older 961 had to deal with. So , there's a cold pint for me if the New TVS bikes are generally much better than they were. I wish I could sample one and within 1 minute I would know.

But
Look at all the Donington bikes around the world compared to only a few or maybe 2 handful of the TVS bikes.

TonyA · Sep 21, 2023

Voodooo said:
But
Look at all the Donington bikes around the world compared to only a few or maybe 2 handful of the TVS bikes.

Hello Voodoo , I cannot argue this point . I can only say that TVS should be better than the earlier ones with a team of engineers , original bikes to sample/test and a bucket load of TVS money.

And at this time , I cannot even get a reponse to my parts request ! So , I just put money down on a 2022 Indian Chief Bobber with the 111 Thunderstroke motor .

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