1962 650ss Build

That’s a real bummer.

If you can find someone with a large lathe or a mill it can be sorted.
It sounds like too much runout for the stick on emery fix.

Glen

man huge bummer, especially if you can see it by eye.

I wrote up a big story about my journey to disappointment, but I can get it fixed eventually, so it's all good. I've already made some progress.

BTW, you guyz are awesome with the troubleshooting ideas and positive attitude to help. Thanks

Few more updates, bringing this up to date as of TODAY. Again, apologies that this is a bit scattershot.

primary cover was a lot to get sorted, and wasn't expecting it to take as much to get it fitted as I thought. The front hole was obviously too small to clear the stator. I debated possibly going without the stator rotor, and just having a small battery that I would need to charge from time to time. I still may go to this option. That would let me put some mesh covers on the openings.




Tried to enlarge this hole myself, and realized that I enjoy my current eyesight too much. Took it up to a local shop and they were able to widen the hole out to about 5" to clear the stator. I won't be running the sweptback as scrambler pipes . . .

I found a distance spacer of 2-1/4" that was 5/16 thread one side and 1/4" thread the other. Then finished with a countersunk hex bolt. It's on there tight as hell, and isn't going anywhere, and makes it pretty easy to open for servicing. Painted with satin engine paint from Eastwood.

I also sprayed the stator exterior black as well, taped off the interior and just hit it with a few light coats.


Trying to turn it over it wouldn't budge. I didn't gap the rotor correctly. This was a great recommendation, and now spins and turns easy.


everything on and bolted up. spent 4 days trying to muster the courage to walk this off myself. The entire time remembering when I thought it might be a good idea to take the castors off the table BEFORE the bike was finished.

I never did do it solo, waited a week for someone to come and stand on the other side as I backed it off. Was also wishing I Had purchased a much longer ramp. HA, live and learn.


First sitting on the ground. Many small adjustments needing making, clip ons, are too long and too forward. Yesterday switched these out for shorter ones that came with the bike. They're a bit dinged up, but somehow they fit much more perfect, and are actually pretty comfortable.



Throttle lever seemed a little stiff, and had a weird click to it. Pulled the top and slide out of the carb, Right carb was missing the copper needle clip. Spent about 45 minutes looking all over the floor on my hands and knees, flashlights through the chain case, and under tables. Tore apart the whole bench etc, then thought about it for 8 seconds, and took the carb completely off.

low and behold . . .


put a bend into this brake arm, still needs one more small kink. It clears the shock fine, and brake arm returns very very well with the spring on the lever. If anything makes me want to redo the set up on my Triton. Make me crazy to think I'm riding that thing with such a bad rear.



First time out in what was left of the sun. All fluids are in it and not leaking from their tanks or cases. Having an issue with one of the carbs leaking. I mistakenly switched the jet holders and put the longer one on the wrong side. Then when tightening the holder down snapped off the needle jet in the block. Today will be addressing that, and hoping that I have a spare 106 jet somewhere.

Also will be fitting the inlet port sleeves into the carb after reading the chopped Monobloc dilemma thread. The one bit I don't get is how the plumbing for the carbs is supposed to be run. How in the hell could anyone get the plastic hoses over the barbs? I am ending up using a pretty thick piece of tube, which can't be correct. Does the diameter of this tube have any impact?

Wow. Looking fabulous there Sean !!

Maybe use a heat gun on the stubborn fuel line. Also when removing them if they don't turn into rock hard plastic. I use 5/16" rubber like EFI hose and it slips on the fittings I'm using. Not a recommendation for a restoration.

Beautiful bike. Job well done. I really like it.

Thing about dropping small parts. You know it's going to happen just before they leave your hand, but it is still too late to do anything about it. I have spent more time on the floor with a flash light this year than all the previous decades combined.

Obviously, no problems with the front brake. Thumbs up

I like that little front stand. Might have to get me one. Mine is huge and actually does not hold the bike up well without straps. Harbor Freight junk.

Great call re heat gun. Will try that this afternoon. And yeah I highly recommend these stands.

Borrowed one once from a friend when trailering a bike and was hooked. They ain’t cheap, but it’s amazing to be able to ride into it and walk away. And it’s a pretty low profile. Ihttps://baxleycompanies.com/

seanalex said:

Great call re heat gun. Will try that this afternoon. And yeah I highly recommend these stands.

Borrowed one once from a friend when trailering a bike and was hooked. They ain’t cheap, but it’s amazing to be able to ride into it and walk away. And it’s a pretty low profile. Ihttps://baxleycompanies.com/

Click to expand...

Cover my ass (CMA) info: Generally speaking a heat gun won't cause a fire unless you drop fuel on the heating element. The lower settings are enough on the hose to soften it. And of course you can heat the hose away from the fitting during an install. I have heated hose connected to flammable sources on occasion. However, I am not smart enough to worry about it.

FYI - My CRS drums are .0195 smaller along the tightest caved section for about 3" along the circumference. I've been trying to pull it out with the spokes in situ, but I'm getting close to splitting the nipples. Besides it's more than likely impossible to do that way. .020 is probably a full day with emery cloth on a stick. I'm going to make a tool from wood that rotates on the axle and has emery cloth on it, Backyard barnyard shed workshop farm truck red neck crazy engineering.

Enjoy the build. Just in time for summer weather.

If you use spoke tension to pull the brake drum toward round the rim will be going very out of round.
Do you have dial indicators on the rim?

Glen

seanalex said:

Great call re heat gun. Will try that this afternoon. And yeah I highly recommend these stands.

Borrowed one once from a friend when trailering a bike and was hooked. They ain’t cheap, but it’s amazing to be able to ride into it and walk away. And it’s a pretty low profile. Ihttps://baxleycompanies.com/

Click to expand...

Looking very nice. Well done.

I use a mug of boiled water for a 30 sec soak, then shake water off and push them on.

I do that with a thermos full in the field when laying alcathene irrigation pipe which is super stiff.

worntorn said:

If you use spoke tension to pull the brake drum toward round the rim will be going very out of round.
Do you have dial indicators on the rim?

Glen

Click to expand...

I was testing a spokes can make the hub out of round and wiggly theory presented earlier in this thread.

The rim already laced to the brake hub arrived out of round more or less. Has a hump in it where the rim ends were joined together. Most people would have been on the phone to CRS when it arrived. I used email, but they didn't believe me enough to pay for return shipping. So it is what it is. The Morad rim is a tough rim. It is staying as round as it was. I won't be playing with the spokes anymore though. If this was an standard Excel shoulderless rim it really would be in a world of hurt doing what I tried. The Excel rim is far more pliable and easily moved by spoke tension.

Your really going to like this... NOT
What I did was: I used barn yard technique and got out a set of feeler gauges. The hub protrudes about 1/8" over the inside edge of the brake plate leaving another 3/16" of brake plate visible except where the hub is bent side to side (looks like a wobble). The exposed surface gets about 1/16" narrower there depending on which side you are looking at. I put a feeler gauge in at the widest gap in the hub around the brake plate to determine approximately the gap height. Then rotated the wheel to the narrowest gap point and did the same thing. Basically a go no go test in both places. Also took incremental readings to determine where the error starts. This for me is close enough. However the numbers on the inside on the actual drum liner may not be as bad, but they will be similar. I have yet to work up the give a darn to take the wheel off. It is a real pain in the butt to take off and reinstall the wheel. If the weather was better I'd be motivated enough to take it off and really look at it.

I've got Morad flanged alloy on a couple of bikes here. They do move around a lot when being laced, however I was aiming for ten thou runout max when finished.
The bump at the weld is pretty standard. I just ignore a six inch stretch there when trueing.
The only way to get around having the bump is to pay up for Sun rims by Buchanan. They machine their rims after welding such that there is no bump or flat spot.
The bump isn't a problem though and I like the look of the flanged Morads. Also, as you say, they seem to be very strong. Riding two up with luggage we used to break some rear spokes every season with the steel Dunlop rims. Since the switch to Morad alloy a few years ago there haven't been any broken spokes.

Sounds like you will be sending this wheel back to the supplier?

Glen

Schwany said:

I was testing a spokes can make the hub out of round and wiggly theory presented earlier in this thread.

The rim already laced to the brake hub arrived out of round more or less. Has a hump in it where the rim ends were joined together. Most people would have been on the phone to CRS when it arrived. I used email, but they didn't believe me enough to pay for return shipping. So it is what it is. The Morad rim is a tough rim. It is staying as round as it was. I won't be playing with the spokes anymore though. If this was an standard Excel shoulderless rim it really would be in a world of hurt doing what I tried. The Excel rim is far more pliable and easily moved by spoke tension.

Your really going to like this... NOT
What I did was: I used barn yard technique and got out a set of feeler gauges. The hub protrudes about 1/8" over the inside edge of the brake plate leaving another 3/16" of brake plate visible except where the hub is bent side to side (looks like a wobble). The exposed surface gets about 1/16" narrower there depending on which side you are looking at. I put a feeler gauge in at the widest gap in the hub around the brake plate to determine approximately the gap height. Then rotated the wheel to the narrowest gap point and did the same thing. Basically a go no go test in both places. Also took incremental readings to determine where the error starts. This for me is close enough. However the numbers on the inside on the actual drum liner may not be as bad, but they will be similar. I have yet to work up the give a darn to take the wheel off. It is a real pain in the butt to take off and reinstall the wheel. If the weather was better I'd be motivated enough to take it off and really look at it.

Click to expand...

Don't know about your particular hub but I have managed to pull hubs out of round on a couple of occasions by overtitening spokes when trying to pull a buckled wheel rim straight
This has been with a steel rim so maybe more rigid than an alloy?

worntorn said:

If you can find someone with a large lathe or a mill it can be sorted.
It sounds like too much runout for the stick on emery fix.

Glen

Click to expand...

I have done the Emery trick quite a few times
I fit the Emery cloth into the cam on the brake shoe
Then wrap it around the shoe
I used a peice of studding and a couple of nuts as the adjustment
I clamp the wheel spindle in my vice with the wheel horizontal
I swing my bench drill around and use the chuck against the tyre to drive the wheel
I put a 2ft torque bar on the brake plate to stop it turning
Then I start the drill and adjust the shoes out until it starts cutting the high spots
It's quite satisfying when the chonking stops and you hear the continus hiss of uniform contact

worntorn said:

I've got Morad flanged alloy on a couple of bikes here. They do move around a lot when being laced, however I was aiming for ten thou runout max when finished.
The bump at the weld is pretty standard. I just ignore a six inch stretch there when trueing.
The only way to get around having the bump is to pay up for Sun rims by Buchanan. They machine their rims after welding such that there is no bump or flat spot.
The bump isn't a problem though and I like the look of the flanged Morads. Also, as you say, they seem to be very strong. Riding two up with luggage we used to break some rear spokes every season with the steel Dunlop rims. Since the switch to Morad alloy a few years ago there haven't been any broken spokes.

Sounds like you will be sending this wheel back to the supplier?

Glen

Click to expand...

I've heard the Morad rims are like what mine is like. Not sending the wheel back though. That ship sailed long ago. Shipping it back to Hungary makes it an expensive PITA. I have a feeling I can get it all sorted enough to ride comfortably.

I'm sure you can. The method Baz described could cut 20 thou.

baz said:

Don't know about your particular hub but I have managed to pull hubs out of round on a couple of occasions by overtitening spokes when trying to pull a buckled wheel rim straight
This has been with a steel rim so maybe more rigid than an alloy?

Click to expand...

230mm 4LS Ceriani replica brake sold by Cafe Racer Suspension. They apparently manufacture them. I want to pull it round. It's not budging with spoke tension, but I have some big hammers just waiting to take a crack at it. Kidding, I think I'll use your wraparound the shoe with emery cloth trick. Thanks for posting the process for how you did it.

Schwany said:

230mm 4LS Ceriani replica brake sold by Cafe Racer Suspension. They apparently manufacture them. I want to pull it round. It's not budging with spoke tension, but I have some big hammers just waiting to take a crack at it. Kidding, I think I'll use your wraparound the shoe with emery cloth trick. Thanks for posting the process for how you did it.

Click to expand...

The adjuster is the critical part
People will tell you you can do the same by using the brake lever and riding the bike
But your hand is not fixed like an adjuster is so you will end up following the dips

Schwany said:

230mm 4LS Ceriani replica brake sold by Cafe Racer Suspension. They apparently manufacture them. I want to pull it round. It's not budging with spoke tension, but I have some big hammers just waiting to take a crack at it. Kidding, I think I'll use your wraparound the shoe with emery cloth trick. Thanks for posting the process for how you did it.

Click to expand...

I'll stick my nose into this by saying I think you'd have a difficult time with spoke tension or a hammer blow(s).

Spoke tension: the hub flanges are designed to resist exactly what you're asking them to do. If it does move, it wouldn't be a good hub. You're more likely to break the flange at the spoke holes than make it round again.

Hammer blow: too random and no good way to make it not so.

I'd try to find a half round something that fits as perfectly as you can find (old brake shoe?) to use a backing. Insert that into the round half of the liner, and find a 1/2" bolt and nut (or a bit of all-thread and a couple nuts on the ends) that spans the gap to the flat spot with some semi-flexible material to pad the liner from the nut. By pushing against a small spot (nut) from a big area (old brake shoe) with the bolt and nut you'll have way more control. You can go slow: half turn, back it off, measure, repeat. Think of it as a slow-mo hammer blow.

All the above done with backed off spoke tension.

20 thou isn't much, but the resulting flat spot in the flange and inconsistent spoke tension is a bigger worry because they won't be addressed by scraping the 20 thou off the brake lining. The brake should be a pretty powerful stopper and a lot of force translated to the rim through the spokes from the hub flanges. Those hub flanges are keeping your chin off the pavement.

On we drift!!!