1962 650ss Build

The torque stays I got through Motocili Veloci, one of the few Ceriani ppl I could find. They're about 2.5-3mm thick

As for contacting Bob, I wrote to him directly about a week ago. I was going to give it a bit more time then write them again. I always try to purchase direct from the supplier/creator whenever possible.
 
The torque stays I got through Motocili Veloci, one of the few Ceriani ppl I could find. They're about 2.5-3mm thick

As for contacting Bob, I wrote to him directly about a week ago. I was going to give it a bit more time then write them again. I always try to purchase direct from the supplier/creator whenever possible.
You can never be sure these days as to whether an email got through or is languishing in someone’s spam !
 
I have those 230mm(?) CRS brakes but with aluminum plates rather than magnesium plates. The brake stays you have are similar to what I have on my Ceriani replica forks. Also the same as what everyone selling brake stays for that brake is using. I admit I thought they were too thin when I got them, but they are plenty stiff once bolted in place.

One thing that has come back to bite me in the butt with the 4LS brake setup is rapid shoe wear and brake cable stretch. The CRS brakes have a very rough drum shoe break-in surface when new and the shoes are on the soft side. When I first cut my cables and installed them, the brakes were perfect with the adjusters about midway, now not so much. I may have to take another .5" off the cables because I'm close to out of adjuster on both sides, and that is only after 50 miles of road use. Keep an eye out and feel for any weird changes at the lever before each ride. Adjustment could be required for a while. Totally normal, but it's my first 4LS brake install, so I'm just mentioning it, so I sound cool and informed. Ha I'm not.

One other thing was that the rods between the shoe cam actuating levers were not adjusted evenly. One side of the brake came on quicker (less movement of the levers) than the other. Might want to check them. Ignore if you already know all that.
 
I have those 230mm(?) CRS brakes but with aluminum plates rather than magnesium plates. The brake stays you have are similar to what I have on my Ceriani replica forks. Also the same as what everyone selling brake stays for that brake is using. I admit I thought they were too thin when I got them, but they are plenty stiff once bolted in place.

One thing that has come back to bite me in the butt with the 4LS brake setup is rapid shoe wear and brake cable stretch. The CRS brakes have a very rough drum shoe break-in surface when new and the shoes are on the soft side. When I first cut my cables and installed them, the brakes were perfect with the adjusters about midway, now not so much. I may have to take another .5" off the cables because I'm close to out of adjuster on both sides, and that is only after 50 miles of road use. Keep an eye out and feel for any weird changes at the lever before each ride. Adjustment could be required for a while. Totally normal, but it's my first 4LS brake install, so I'm just mentioning it, so I sound cool and informed. Ha I'm not.

One other thing was that the rods between the shoe cam actuating levers were not adjusted evenly. One side of the brake came on quicker (less movement of the levers) than the other. Might want to check them. Ignore if you already know all that.
I did not know any of this, and its all great saftey info, so thanks! And yeah they are 230mm replicas. Bought them after the Original Grimecas I had cracked installing a bearing. You could imagine how great that made me feel.

But, better to know before its on the bike I suppose.

1962 650ss Build
 
You are probably aware of this, but really be careful in the cold weather with a new front tire and that brake while bedding the brake in. Those white crosswalk lines are slippery in 35F-degree weather with cold new tires and asphalt hurts. Just saying maybe wait until spring to get out there and turn the wick up. I wish I had. Nuff said about that.
 
It's been a while since the last update, I'm not really doing a great job of documenting this for myself. Since about January I have finished and timed the motor. I'm going to double check this a few more times before attempting to fire. But the magneto is coming on at 30 degrees BTDC. I played a bit with the cigarette paper trick, but didn't have too much confidence in it. Ended up buying one of those little magneto timing light boxes, and it gives much better feedback. Getting the auto advance on without it moving the timing is absolutely hilarious. So I'm sure you all know how that process goes, but in reality, I don't think it took much longer than an hour to get it set and tightened on. The chains feel to have good play in them. And the motor feels smooth as the pistons come up and down. Feels to have good compression as well with just my finger over the spark plug hole.

1962 650ss Build

1962 650ss Build


I'm happy with how the cases ended up. They're polished, but not quite full show polish. I wanted to keep some of the now 60 yr old patina where I could. I've since decided agains polishing every single piece of everything. I really do like how the scotchbrite polishing looks. I also really love that it can be done in place to finish up any blemishes that come from reassembly. To me there is nothing more annoying than having a bunch of "almost perfect". I'm certainly more inclined to the perfectly imperfect.

I had ran into a few issues on the assembly of the motor. I had mistakenly not specified 1.4" intake valves when I had ordered them. Kind of a bummer, to have to stop the build after fitting the barrels, but the correct sized valves showed up pretty fast. I used the time to purchase a neway cutter and took off a small amount of material to get a nice seat. I used the recommended fitment from the JS manual, using the thin gauge copper wire, with the pliobond cement. Everything was torquing on just fine. Hilariously, or maybe not, upon fitting the rocker spindle covers, one of the small hex nuts slipped from my finger and went down the spark plug hole. I honestly couldn't believe it, and felt a real ass for not fitting the spark plugs. Guess I was too excited. So, the whole head came off and the process was restarted.

Th seat has been sent to a semi local guy who I think is going to do a decent job. He kind of gets the all aluminum style that I'm trying to do, and that I don't want it to look like "new upholstery"

I've yet to get finished photos of the full motor, but the mono blocs are back on, and looking great. Replaced all of the necessary jets, pilots, floats, and a few other screws here and there. Got them all scuffed nicely with scotchbrite too. I've also bought some 2" stainless mesh discs from McMaster Carr. They will go over the bellmouth openings. I'm not clear how I will fit them in yet. Either going to be solder, set screw, or cut 4 notches around the bellmouth with a Dremel for the disc to sit in. I've set up the carbs to the spec recommended in the Dunstall Tuning book for Monoblocs, on a 650, with open Megaphones. So figured that should get me kinda close. They'll be sitting on 1.5" extensions with the longer studs.
1962 650ss Build


As was suggested by a few with the open primary cover and bob newby belt drive, I also ordered larger stainless discs also from McMaster and epoxied them in to the back of the aluminum case. It looks wonderful, and quite stock. I love McMaster.

Brake lines have been run to the front four leading shoe, and the rear brake assembly has been double checked to be in good tension. I'm still deciding how I am going to fit the rear brake switch, but I'm getting there, and keeping it semi hidden using what may be the exhaust mounting point.
1962 650ss Build


1962 650ss Build


On the exhaust side of things, I have a set of Sweptback pipes that I've just gotten from Armours in the UK. I was a huge fan of the megaphone they make for the Manx single, the one that has the flat side to it. So I asked them if they could make them to the same opening that would fit the sweptback, and they said they could do it no problem. Pretty awesome, and I'm excited to see how they will look on the bike. They'll of course be way loud, so I may put something in the end of the swept back before it hits the opening. I've yet to decide on the exhaust nut that I will use. I presently have the brass one, and the stainless one sold by Molnar.
1962 650ss Build


On to the tank. I'm super happy with how it sits. A local shop was able to cut off some of the older tabs and grind them smooth, and fit the crossbar so that I can fit the tank strap. I still need them to weld on a rear brake stay. I've also decided to go with the larger Tab classics Manx tank. I originally thought that I would do the lyta, but it just looks too small, and a bit odd with clip ons, and no clip on indents. I may end up using the Lyta on a different bike in the future, and I think that the Manx one looks perfect. I was also able to use a black leather strap that I bought for my Thruxton under the tank strap. Fit perfectly, especially around the gas cap filler neck. The same shop also helped me out with straightening and replacing some of the engine plate mounting tabs. Some or all of them were bent in someway, and I wasn't able to fit the motor between the front plates.
1962 650ss Build

1962 650ss Build

Other than that, spent a good bit of the few weeks putting things together, and fitting the cables, and how they will run and making sure that they don't bind. Made up the spark plug wires, and throttle cables. Fitted up the headlight, and switch gear, hopefully this will all make wiring a bit easier when I get there. The whole bike is now completely disassembled in a ton of zip lock bags. Next steps are to get the rear brake stay welded on, get nicer weather to paint everything and let it dry, wash all of the small bolts and bits in a ultrasonic before assembly, then have someone help me wedge the motor into the frame. Cross fingers, hope it starts.

Spent some time thinking about steering stops. I thought I had a solution combining the RGM stops with another companies stops. In the end, the still didn't clear the underside of the tank to meet the bottom yoke. Came up with this as a part time solution and will be looking at it a bit more upon reassembly. Hard fitting rubber grommet fit around the outside of the clip on bolts. Works really well, and prevents the yokes from doing too much damage.

1962 650ss Build



Thats it for now. Not too much else that I can think of that is proving an issue at this point.
 
I've also bought some 2" stainless mesh discs from McMaster Carr. They will go over the bellmouth openings. I'm not clear how I will fit them in yet. Either going to be solder, set screw, or cut 4 notches around the bellmouth with a Dremel for the disc to sit in.
Some maintain that the mesh restricts too much at WOT and results in a dangerously lean mixture. No experience with that particular problem myself, but I've heard it mentioned over and over from people who know more than I do.

Gotta paint the insides of those megas red!

Looks really great so far. Hope it goes as well as it looks!
 
Some maintain that the mesh restricts too much at WOT and results in a dangerously lean mixture. No experience with that particular problem myself, but I've heard it mentioned over and over from people who know more than I do.

Gotta paint the insides of those megas red!

Looks really great so far. Hope it goes as well as it looks!

I hope it goes well too. My other bike has a mesh filter over the mouth, and yeah never had issue. I don't see myself running this thing at WOT for long enough to notice though.

Hope to get the frame painted this weekend.
 
I hope it goes well too. My other bike has a mesh filter over the mouth, and yeah never had issue. I don't see myself running this thing at WOT for long enough to notice though.

Hope to get the frame painted this weekend.
At least the mesh will stop the stones denting the tops of the pistons!;)
 
I might have missed it but when you timed the mag did you check the timing on both sides. Old mags are famous for having different timing on opposite lobes of the cam. If it's say up to 3 degrees you can balance it between cylinders. But I have seen over 10 degree difference which can melt a piston.
 
I might have missed it but when you timed the mag did you check the timing on both sides. Old mags are famous for having different timing on opposite lobes of the cam. If it's say up to 3 degrees you can balance it between cylinders. But I have seen over 10 degree difference which can melt a piston.
You can stone the cam to reduce the error though.
 
You can stone the cam to reduce the error though.
For some issues maybe. But not if the shaft alignment is out. You may also find the points gap is different. Stoning the cam is fixing a symptom. Not the problem..
 
For some issues maybe. But not if the shaft alignment is out. You may also find the points gap is different. Stoning the cam is fixing a symptom. Not the problem..
Yeah - I agree. You can fix an assymetric cam but not an off-centre shaft
 
If the points gap is different on both ramps of the cam ring, there WILL be a timing difference of 2 degrees timing for each 0.001 inch difference in point gap.
For a proper fix, refer to this: https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/setting-up-and-timing-a-k2f-magneto.19685/

I hope this helps. Slick
 
If the points gap is different on both ramps of the cam ring, there WILL be a timing difference of 2 degrees timing for each 0.001 inch difference in point gap.
For a proper fix, refer to this: https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/setting-up-and-timing-a-k2f-magneto.19685/

I hope this helps. Slick

I've read that post twice, its great. As it stands now, the right cylinder comes onto fire 1 degree after the left. The mag was professionally rebuilt and checked over for wear.

I will also check the timing once more before I drop the motor in, and probably once again just to make sure my OCD is satisfied.
 
Since the last update here I think there's been a bit of progress, and hope that today/this weekend I can get a few more alignment things dialed in and fixed in place. Then go back through and dip everything in Loctite. And torque anything to spec that has a spec.

I was able to Clean up the frame a bit more, get a rear tab welded on for the brake stay, and get the whole thing painted. I was looking to have it done professionally, only because I knew that I would make some mistakes somewhere, and that alone would drive me nuts. I spoke with a few body shops locally, and none of them wanted to take on the work. I think only because it falls outside the norm of what they do day in and day out. I could have looked a bit harder, but just figured I'd do it myself. I went with the Spray Max gloss, and their epoxy primer. It doesn't look terrible, but there are certainly a few parts I could have a bit thicker of a base. I found it so hard to get good coverage of the rear of the frame, like hard to get the can in there with nice coverage. Oh well. A bit annoyed as buying that nice paint is already so expensive.

One thing that I did mostly accomplish was keeping the paint looking decent in the areas of the frame that will be exposed.

1962 650ss Build


After a few days letting it cure in a warm room, I wrapped as much as I could with foam pipe insulation, and have been trying so so hard to make sure that I replace the foam and tape each time I take it off to add a piece. I certainly have a habit of feeling confident about doing something small, then make a slip up and cause damage. It may be a bit overkill, but I hoped that it works.
1962 650ss Build


Was able to line everything up in the back without completely damaging the paint, and spent some scotchbrite time cleaning up this and that to get all the metal finishing to be of about the same point. I'm happy with how this spacer/blanking plate came up for the rear hub speedo. It was a pretty bad chrome look when I got it.
1962 650ss Build


Fashioned up the rear brake light switch and ended up drilling a tiny hole into the rears where the spring will mount through. I looked through a lot of different options on switches, and couldn't find one that was small enough, that could be mounted in line with the brake rod, as I really want to try to keep the switch as hidden as possible. I think this is from a 70's honda or something. IDK, we'll see when I put up the exhaust fully into place how it will hold up. I'll probably have to move it somewhere. I was trying to fashion a "push type" instead of a "pull type" but this was the best that I can do for now, and figured I have bigger issues.
1962 650ss Build


Got the seat back from the Upholsterer, and I think it looks pretty good. Dude does mostly Hot rods, and Restoration work, and we shared a good amount of photos of the final goal. It's a leather that is a little rough and should develop a good patina over time.
1962 650ss Build


Half a case a beer, and a few friends over got the motor in place. I know that I've heard the easiest way to do it is to lay the frame on its side, but I had already started building up the bike as none of my friends could help me out till this past weekend. Using a bottle jack and a center jack it wasn't that difficult to lower it into place with the bike mocked up. Thankfully didn't completely destroy the paint in process. I've got the side stand on, in a more rearward position. For some reason it wasn't clearing the engine plates up towards the front of the bike. It seems like it will be ok there with clearance of the rear sets and primary cases. I have one in a similar place on my Triton. I do think that I will add the center stand to this bike though. I know they're heavy, but there's certainly enough room, and I know they're a bit easier to kick over.

1962 650ss Build


Cabling to clutch run and seems to be working well, and it's a nice pull action. I still need to figure out the stator, and how I'm going to fit the primary cover over it that I want to use. I think I'll need to enlarge the hole in the case over the stator. Then will look at how to cover the hole in some kind of gauze screen. The only other thought that I keep having is ditching the charging system all together, and just putting a battery into the bike that I'll need to keep on a tender.

I don't plan to ride this bike as an every day thing, so the battery only option could work right? Initially I was planning to have no Battery on this system, and have a small capacitor inline.
1962 650ss Build


The swept back pipes, and mega's from Armours fit well under the rear sets, and I'm quite stoked. I really didn't think it was going to line up. The exhaust hanger is about 1" past the rear mounting point, and that should be fine. I'm planning to space it out from the frame with a 1" aluminum spacer, which will hopefully give me some good clearance for the brake light switch.
1962 650ss Build


Sorting out the wiring, cutting down the mount for the Tacho, fitting and checking alignment of the chain, and running all the hoses and throttle cables are the big projects that remain.

I'm trying to figure how to run the plumbing for the morgo filter that I have as well, it's a bit tight back there, and don't know how to make it a straight shot without a bunch of loops and figure 8's. Does anyone know if those filters can be mounted upside down??
 

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Paint looks nice.
How many cans of epoxy primer and gloss black did you need?
Did you also use their clear top coat?
SprayMax has a beige, grey and black epoxy primer.
I have used their beige but have recently goneto black in case of any chips to the gloss black.
 
Paint looks nice.
How many cans of epoxy primer and gloss black did you need?
Did you also use their clear top coat?
SprayMax has a beige, grey and black epoxy primer.
I have used their beige but have recently goneto black in case of any chips to the gloss black.
I used 2 cans of the primer, in grey. And 3 cans of the black gloss, but probably could have used a 4th. I did not do the clear. Only because Last time that I put clear coat over something it bubbled the paint underneath.
 
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