1962 650ss Build

Looking good from here Sean.
What is the cost per can of this paint?

I was tempted to do something similar with the 920 frame as the local autosupply sells epoxy paint in spray cans that are made to order. I'm not sure exactly how they work, the catalyst must stay separate until use. I know that once usage starts the open time for the can is about 2 hrs, then the paint inside turns solid.
These fairly large cans are $45 each
, so I chickened out and went with powder coat instead. They did a great job. Not cheap, $400, however that included the sidestand, primary cover and also all sand blast prep. Usually I do that myself at a local shop called Ublast. They rent large industrial sand blast units at $80 per hour. It generally takes me a couple of hours to do a thorough job on a frame and swing arm, so the all in price of $400 for a nice job wasn't looking bad at all.

Glen
 
The paint is like $26/can for the primer, and $32/can for the gloss.

The other bummer is that you have to stop using the can before it actually runs out of paint. So I feel like there's about 10% of paint that you basically throw away.
 
Tossing this out because it was mentioned to me by a member here and then I experienced it.

Keep an eye on the fasteners for the front brake stays on that 4LS brake. Use Loctite or star washers because those fasteners can loosen up. When that happens, feedback at the hand grips feels like the head set bearings are loose and braking is herky jerky. Very annoying, and unsettling feeling coming to full stops. Well, it is for me anyway. I now carry a tool for tightening them up. Star washers are ugly, but that is what I am planning to use.
 
Tossing this out because it was mentioned to me by a member here and then I experienced it.

Keep an eye on the fasteners for the front brake stays on that 4LS brake. Use Loctite or star washers because those fasteners can loosen up. When that happens, feedback at the hand grips feels like the head set bearings are loose and braking is herky jerky. Very annoying, and unsettling feeling coming to full stops. Well, it is for me anyway. I now carry a tool for tightening them up. Star washers are ugly, but that is what I am planning to use.
You're referring to where the stay meets the forks, or where it meets the brake plate? As for the ones in the forks, I presently have lock washers, and Loctite. I have just loctite on the brake plate, but will think about adding star washers.
 
You're referring to where the stay meets the forks, or where it meets the brake plate? As for the ones in the forks, I presently have lock washers, and Loctite. I have just loctite on the brake plate, but will think about adding star washers.
All the above, but a lock washer would work just as well. I just happen to have a bunch of star washers.

Turns out the thing I was experiencing is much worse than I thought. I'm thinking my Cafe Racer Suspension 230mm 4LS has out of round drums or a slightly warped hub. It's not the prettiest looking example even though it is new. I tightened the braces up at the forks and the plates and it acts like a pair of warped disc rotors if I really need to stop quick. Never noticed it until I picked up the pace and really started using the brake. Could be my head set bearings though. They are funky old ball bearings. I've got a new set of their Ceriani copy forks too, and the left leg has already lost a seal with less than 150 miles on it. If it aint one thing it's another. Darned old motorcycles. Hope you have better luck.
 
All the above, but a lock washer would work just as well. I just happen to have a bunch of star washers.

Turns out the thing I was experiencing is much worse than I thought. I'm thinking my Cafe Racer Suspension 230mm 4LS has out of round drums or a slightly warped hub. It's not the prettiest looking example even though it is new. I tightened the braces up at the forks and the plates and it acts like a pair of warped disc rotors if I really need to stop quick. Never noticed it until I picked up the pace and really started using the brake. Could be my head set bearings though. They are funky old ball bearings. I've got a new set of their Ceriani copy forks too, and the left leg has already lost a seal with less than 150 miles on it. If it aint one thing it's another. Darned old motorcycles. Hope you have better luck.

Interesting . . . and giving me too many thoughts, but I hear the word of caution.

Some questions for you,
- do you think its possible the shoes need to bed into the drum?
- Or is it possible that one cable is tighter than the other, causing differing wear?
- As for the Forks, how much oil did you put in yours? Mine are feeling quite spongy, and I want to add more oil, but I'm not second guessing that. 250ml of 15W.

- I also read in one of your older posts that you were going to leave the tops of the forks out of the triple clamp by an inch. Did you do this? I'm still deciding where mine should be. They are currently at about .25" Also makes me think if the forks are uneven, or filled to differing fluid heights they would compress on the brake plate at different rates right? Leading to a twisting feeling.

I'm confident I'm going to have all the same issues that you describe above, trying to think through all the different causes and solutions before I go out on the road with this thing.
 
All the above, but a lock washer would work just as well. I just happen to have a bunch of star washers.

Turns out the thing I was experiencing is much worse than I thought. I'm thinking my Cafe Racer Suspension 230mm 4LS has out of round drums or a slightly warped hub. It's not the prettiest looking example even though it is new. I tightened the braces up at the forks and the plates and it acts like a pair of warped disc rotors if I really need to stop quick. Never noticed it until I picked up the pace and really started using the brake. Could be my head set bearings though. They are funky old ball bearings. I've got a new set of their Ceriani copy forks too, and the left leg has already lost a seal with less than 150 miles on it. If it aint one thing it's another. Darned old motorcycles. Hope you have better luck.
Did you buy the wheel complete? Or have a rim laced onto the hub?
It's often the lacing that can pull the hub out of shape
 
that was my other thought. that the lacing could pull it out of round. I had mine laced at Buchannans. And there are some wheel weights on it, so I'd guess it runs true.
 
Thanks guys.

I'll look at the lacing. The brake hub was laced up to the Morad rim by someone Cafe Racer Suspension uses to build wheels, and air shipped over the big pond complete. The forks came boxed up and ready to install... supposedly.

The fork tubes are set above the top clamp at .75" Measured with a caliper.

3rd thought is I choose lighter springs than CRS recommended for a Norton twin. I took their recommendation for the shocks, and they are on the stiff side. So thought maybe I don't want a stiff front end and ordered lighter spring for the forks. Anyway, the forks could be bottoming or getting very close to bottoming on harder braking. I'll make some preload spacers and see if that does any good. Preload is already maxed with the current springs.

I was thinking I had 150 miles on the shoes, but it might only be 100 miles. I don't know how many bedding in stops that included, but many since all those miles were on city streets with traffic lights. Also possible that the adjustment is not correct. I have both sides coming on equally as far as I can tell, but they could still be off somehow. The brake arrived adjusted out of sync. One side took more pull distance to engage than the other side. I adjusted them for equal engagement. Maybe I should have left them alone. I'll ask CRS what they think. If they are still in business with all the crap going on over there.

So far the CRS shocks continue to work fine.
 
All the above, but a lock washer would work just as well. I just happen to have a bunch of star washers.

Turns out the thing I was experiencing is much worse than I thought. I'm thinking my Cafe Racer Suspension 230mm 4LS has out of round drums or a slightly warped hub. It's not the prettiest looking example even though it is new. I tightened the braces up at the forks and the plates and it acts like a pair of warped disc rotors if I really need to stop quick. Never noticed it until I picked up the pace and really started using the brake. Could be my head set bearings though. They are funky old ball bearings. I've got a new set of their Ceriani copy forks too, and the left leg has already lost a seal with less than 150 miles on it. If it aint one thing it's another. Darned old motorcycles. Hope you have better luck.
You can’t blame the old motorcycle for the failings of the new parts !!
 
Well, I can and did, but it's really my fault for owning an old motorcycle and putting new parts on it.
 
Well yes, you’re right, you can.

But it’s utterly illogical !!

I think you are reading way too much into the comment about "darned old motorcycles". Was my sentence missing the "darned old smiley face"? :)

Interesting . . . and giving me too many thoughts, but I hear the word of caution.

Some questions for you,
Also makes me think if the forks are uneven, or filled to differing fluid heights they would compress on the brake plate at different rates right? Leading to a twisting feeling.

I'm confident I'm going to have all the same issues that you describe above, trying to think through all the different causes and solutions before I go out on the road with this thing.

seanalex,

The front end chatters like a warped rotor. It is not a twisting thing. The old original SLS brake that the bike came with made my Betor forks twist a little. I could not feel that under braking. However, it was only a skinny little 7" SLS brake. It could be seen sitting still in the saddle and pushing the bike forward and grabbing a hand full of brake. It made the fender move about 3/16" as soon as the tire locked up on the garage floor. My fender with this big brake makes my fender creak a little. I'll check it later to see how much it moves. A full over the fender brace might be handy. Fiberglass is only so strong under shear, or whatever technical thing is happening.

I doubt you will have any issues with your brake since Buchannan's took care of lacing it up, and you serviced your forks. I just have something weird going on with my setup I need to figure out.
 
I think you are reading way too much into the comment about "darned old motorcycles". Was my sentence missing the "darned old smiley face"? :)



seanalex,

The front end chatters like a warped rotor. It is not a twisting thing. The old original SLS brake that the bike came with made my Betor forks twist a little. I could not feel that under braking. However, it was only a skinny little 7" SLS brake. It could be seen sitting still in the saddle and pushing the bike forward and grabbing a hand full of brake. It made the fender move about 3/16" as soon as the tire locked up on the garage floor. My fender with this big brake makes my fender creak a little. I'll check it later to see how much it moves. A full over the fender brace might be handy. Fiberglass is only so strong under shear, or whatever technical thing is happening.

I doubt you will have any issues with your brake since Buchannan's took care of lacing it up, and you serviced your forks. I just have something weird going on with my setup I need to figure out.
Perhaps I am.

And perhaps you are reading too much into my response too!?

With your brake, try riding it whilst deliberately holding it on a little to accelerate the bedding in. It’s really worth ensuring it’s bedded in before worrying too much cos the difference pre and post proper bedding in can be night and day.

A fork brace just should not be needed. The twisting forces just aren’t the issue that people think they are, especially at the speeds these bikes are capable of. Even if twisting was an issue, a double sides brake like yours create even force on both sides, not a twisting motion.

Also, remember that as they bed in they need re adjustment, that means adjusting both sides (unless you have a self compensating lever?) and also the rod connection the levers together on each side.

A careful hand is required to make these adjustments and ensure even pressures.
 
With your brake, try riding it whilst deliberately holding it on a little to accelerate the bedding in. It’s really worth ensuring it’s bedded in before worrying too much cos the difference pre and post proper bedding in can be night and day.

A fork brace just should not be needed. The twisting forces just aren’t the issue that people think they are, especially at the speeds these bikes are capable of. Even if twisting was an issue, a double sides brake like yours create even force on both sides, not a twisting motion.

Also, remember that as they bed in they need re adjustment, that means adjusting both sides (unless you have a self compensating lever?) and also the rod connection the levers together on each side.

A careful hand is required to make these adjustments and ensure even pressures.
There is a downhill about 1/2 mile long 3 blocks from my driveway. That is where I do some bedding in just about every time I have ridden since putting the brake on. Also did the accelerating while holding the brake method on a much longer downhill a few miles from my driveway.

I have to do some regression thinking about what I have done since installing the brake. It feels a lot like the bearings are not happy in the head set tube. The P11 has a loose ball bearing setup. However, nothing moves fore and aft up there. It's a puzzler, but most likely an adjustment somewhere. Maybe my frame is busted. I've been told that frame they stuffed the 750 engine into can't take too much brake. Better go check closer.

Sorry sean. It was not my intention to get into my problem in your build thread. I was just sending out a this can happen with this brake message.
 
Sorry sean. It was not my intention to get into my problem in your build thread. I was just sending out a this can happen with this brake message.
I appreciate the problems though, I know I'll be having the same questions hopefully by the end of the week.

How does one properly adjust the actuating rod between the brake arm levers, and is there any type of gauge for how tight the tension on the brake lines should be?
 
Pulsation will be from an out of round drum. There are a couple of fixes, one with a large lathe, the other is using the wheel as a lathe.

Glen
 
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Do you have a dial or test indicator to check runout of the inner drum? Take the brake plates off, re-mount the wheel and clamp an indicator to the fork. Set it up to ride in the inside of the drum (where the brake shoes contact) and give it a slow spin.

I don't have to worry about it on my P-11, brakes are pretty poor.

-George
 
Still sorry sean, but there's more: ;)

I looked a little closer at the CRS brake. No need for a dial gauge. The right side drum is visibly out of round and the entire thing is actually slightly warped side to side. I don't know how the heck anyone could do it with any other process than dropping it before it was laced up and some sort of excessive force like running over it with a fork lift. No way could you do what has been done to this drum with a set of spokes. I tried pulling up the out of round area with the spokes. Not working on this planet. Don't have a lathe.

I did notice most of this before I installed it, but during setup I thought it might work like my P11 brake in the sense that when setup tight there was just a touch of scrape of the shoes on the drum when rotating the wheel. Sort of like a big old classic car drum brake. Unfortunately things did not work out that way with the big 4LS. It chatters on that slightly out of round surface.

Waste of money and my time on this particular CRS brake. May be the only brake they have sold that was not perfect, but I kind of doubt it based on how it looks cosmetically. I may be taking it off and using a hammer and some custom cut wood blocks on it later as a lathe substitute. As it its, it is only useful at low speed. Might as well have left the P11 brake on there. It worked at low speed.
 
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