yeah, another gapping ?

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When I was a kid, I fitted a set of rings into a Matchless 500 engine with too little (probably nil) end gap, and the piston went into the bore, and when it got into the worn area, it was impossible to remove again, and too tight to run the motor. We broke the piston trying to get it out. So don't do anything silly.
 
acadian said:
Interesting reading indeed, and another opinion to throw on the pile. Listening to engineers debate the importance of rings gaps is as entertaining as watching lawyers argue over a contract... cylinders are just under +20 service limit, +30 rings will not cause worlds to collide as some purport.
It's common practice to get one size over rings and file them down to fit because it seems very often ring sets are shipped with too much gap clearance. One theory is that the manufacturers realize that most people don't check the gap, let alone know how to file them to fit if they need it. This issue was covered in a previous thread.
 
rpatton said:
acadian said:
Interesting reading indeed, and another opinion to throw on the pile. Listening to engineers debate the importance of rings gaps is as entertaining as watching lawyers argue over a contract... cylinders are just under +20 service limit, +30 rings will not cause worlds to collide as some purport.
It's common practice to get one size over rings and file them down to fit because it seems very often ring sets are shipped with too much gap clearance. One theory is that the manufacturers realize that most people don't check the gap, let alone know how to file them to fit if they need it. This issue was covered in a previous thread.


The rings (modern production) are made spot-on. The theory that is much more likely, (THIS viewpoint is able to be substantiated with measuring tools), is that all too many machinists will finish the bore TOO BIG, near, or in some cases beyond the published WEAR LIMIT for the engine being worked.
If the bore measures where it should be, actual measured size, the ring end gap falls into place nicely. The micrometer, bore gages and feeler gages don't lie.
 
Hehe, yep must remove ring bore wear lips or traps ring in bore.

I went through ring issues last spring, Trixie smoking and head gasket blow by after like 5 miles of new engine running. I'd found .022 to .024" gaps, about twice the size of normal, so of course almost every one with long seasoned expertise reflexly responded that - ole hobot was a stupid shade tree that screwed up by not measuring gap before install like every proper mechanic would do. I had to assume they were right - UNTIL - my bud Wes found the same over size gaps with smoking blowby at like 7-8,000 miles [~ 1 yr of rides].

Wes a is proper mechanic and measured initial gap as correct. Deeper digging like the article above plus even more informative ones plus comparing our notes revealed the source of the ring wear and why big gaps don't cause the smoke or case blowby. Wes's intact KN Miki filter and my Amal carb boot cracks were letting in too much Grit to live with long so caused the OD of rings to wear and open gaps, but it was the **rounded upper edge** of the ring wear that was failing to seal letting pressure by - Not The Worn Gap size. Wes now has second foam layer over his KN and I have trimmed the booties to seal again.

Comstock and Canaga told me-us in Trixie ring thread that its long standard practice to put in one size bigger OD ring to take up the bore wear to save old pistons or remaining bore and just file gap open enough to tolerate the heat expected.

Btw our ring gaps were found still staggered, so my impression now is that Norton rings don't rotation to matter a whitworth, either because they rotate so fast they don't align for long or they don't hardly rotate so stay staggered.

Oh yeah the slightly bigger 2nd ring gap idea is to avoid equalizing combustion pressure between ring to keep the top ring pressed down in piston groove and outward into bore.

So my hobot summary - there should be no need to measure ring gap if piston and bore are within the nominal re-bore sizes, then off the shelf out the box ring gaps will be correct, as it has on me and Wes's almost yearly ring jobs.
 
Anyhoo,+30 rings gapped square to recommended - top 10 thou, middle and oil scraper to 8 thou. Checked with a background light source, couldn't see anything between the ring faces and cylinder wall...
 
acadian said:
.... Also, can find nothing on oil ring gap.
Total Seal recommends 0.015" regardless of the bore size.

http://www.totalseal.com/TechPage.aspx

acadian said:
Anyhoo,+30 rings gapped square to recommended - top 10 thou, middle and oil scraper to 8 thou. Checked with a background light source, couldn't see anything between the ring faces and cylinder wall...
You might want to think about gapping the second compression ring bigger than the top instead of tighter.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... power.aspx[/quote]

This is good if you like pictures. It covers why people still think they should gap the second ring tighter.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... ewall.html
 
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