Mark, Ive been riding motorcycles for 56 years, most of them had no starter. Probably longer than you've been on the face of the earth. During those years I've gained a fair amount of knowledge about motorcycles. Opinions can be formed in an instant, knowledge takes time. You'll get there, I'm sure.
Why no Electric starter til 1975?
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JimC said:
My 1969 Series II Landrover has a hand crank behind the seats. And I have started the old girl that way. :mrgreen:
You should see their faces when I do it.
Cheers,
Thomas
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JimC said:
Yes. But just to show off....It is stock Lucas points. :wink: and no smoke.
Thomas
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NahJimC said:
That Little inline 4 is bullet proof. And It holds alot of oil. :mrgreen:
Landrover knew what they were doing. I would rather have it in the outbacks 200 miles from nowhere than whats produced today.
But I degress we are walking away from this OP thread.
Cheers,
Thomas
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To digress a bit farther; the nature documentaries of some 30-40 years ago had Landrovers as transportation. Today, I see mostly Toyotas in the current nature docs. I used to view a Landrover as the vehicle of choice for off-road transportation. The last 20 years, or so, I believe they are viewed as a status symbol for the higher income earner. I'd venture to say a lot of the today's newer Landrovers have never seen a mile off pavement.
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JimC said:
to even digress further still :?
There was a great "B" movie call "the gods must be crazy" and a series 1 known as the antichrist. Make the cameltrophy look tame. That landrover climbed trees.
I laughed my ass off.
check it out on youtube.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN
Time Warp
.......back to the 70's.
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I removed all kick start levers and only bump start.
Real bikes have drum brakes I might add. :lol:
Funny early series Landrovers being mentioned,there is one parked beside the road in the area,remarking to swmbo the other day that one of those would be great (I do not own a car) was met with a you must be kidding.
I need to work on her. :lol:
Things seem to have got complicated for no other reason than a new model every year is expected in consumer land. (New Landcruiser base model $94000)
Real bikes have drum brakes I might add. :lol:
Funny early series Landrovers being mentioned,there is one parked beside the road in the area,remarking to swmbo the other day that one of those would be great (I do not own a car) was met with a you must be kidding.
I need to work on her. :lol:
Things seem to have got complicated for no other reason than a new model every year is expected in consumer land. (New Landcruiser base model $94000)
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Different times. Having electric start was not that important in the early 70's for the typical 20 something baby boomer buyer. Very few 2 strokes had them, not even the Kawasaki and Suzuki 750 triples, the Yamaha 650 twin had one but it never worked, so it was pretty much kickstart only and they sold like hotcakes. The technology was not that good as it is today, so unless a bike had small cylinders (a 750 four has ~180cc cylinders) you needed a large starter motor and battery that added a lot of weight. (The starter motor for my 640 KTM is about the same size as a 350cc Honda or similar starter motor was back in 1970's) Performance oriented riders did not want electric start, we were young fit heros who took pride in our ability to light up a Norton, electric start was for wimps, and old fat guys and their fat bikes. What killed the Norton was the shot gun marriage with Triumph - BSA and the Meriden strike, but for that I think they could have survived as a low volume producer of quality but quirky motorcycles for the rider who wanted something different from the mainstream, like Moto Guzzis.
It should be noted that the 1975 MkIII was not seen by us as a great leap forward back in the day, it was heavier, slower, and we hated those restrictive mufflers. About the only positive thing about them was the 'vernier' adjustment for the isolastics. Showrooms were empty of bikes and buyers, but the market for earlier Commandos remained brisk.
It should be noted that the 1975 MkIII was not seen by us as a great leap forward back in the day, it was heavier, slower, and we hated those restrictive mufflers. About the only positive thing about them was the 'vernier' adjustment for the isolastics. Showrooms were empty of bikes and buyers, but the market for earlier Commandos remained brisk.
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everiman said:
The Suzuki GT 750 had electric start and kick.
When you never had the option of electric start it is a moot point,a bit like five and six speed transmissions.
As far as Brit bikes in general of the period,the tooling was near worn out,the fundamental engineering theory and execution had been surpassed not only by the Japanese but also the Italians,that includes the castings quality and finish.
Its just how it was,it would have cost millions of pounds sterling and a total new outlook that was impossible in that time period.
That in itself would have removed what was the 'British motorcycle.
As far as the electric start all were a bodge bar the T160 perhaps,remember OHC was still a dream,even Triumph were still rehashing the 1975 model in 1982,Kawasaki released the first 150 mph production bike some two years later.
I hope I never become a kick start poser at the local 'Starbucks. :lol:
everiman said:
Moto Guzzi had the V7 Sport and Eldorado,there was no other brand like them.
Of course a change in leadership saw the Eldorado canned in late 1974 when they were still a big seller,I believe there were waiting lists in the USA.
The change was based on the new leadership wanting a more modern tack even at the expense of guaranteed sales on existing models and possible loss of brand loyalty.
Hmmm ??
I took the hacksaw to my Mk3 electric tart almost as soon as I got it. It went in the bin along with the indicators and mirrors from every other bike I'd owned. I'm with everiman on this. We young chaps just didn't want them. Extra weight on the bike together with a suggestion of poor physical condition in the rider.
Regardless of how it might seem now, there was a mystic to owning a large capacity British motorcycle forty years ago. The Japanese have made bikes accessible to everyone but it used to be necessary to almost follow an apprenticeship involving starting and maintenance. The old rituals are important and contribute to the subsequent enjoyment. Removing an LP from its sleeves and cueing up a turntable are similarly important rituals.
To be honest, the Commando could be lots more fun with manual ignition timing and a valve lifter to play with.
Regardless of how it might seem now, there was a mystic to owning a large capacity British motorcycle forty years ago. The Japanese have made bikes accessible to everyone but it used to be necessary to almost follow an apprenticeship involving starting and maintenance. The old rituals are important and contribute to the subsequent enjoyment. Removing an LP from its sleeves and cueing up a turntable are similarly important rituals.
To be honest, the Commando could be lots more fun with manual ignition timing and a valve lifter to play with.
batrider
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When I got my Harley XR this year after 40 years of kickstarting Brit bikes I felt very vulnerable being dependent on the battery for starting and still don't like it. It is a bit shocking to me now that kickstarting is not the norm. I wish the HD had one just in case it's needed. Just one time leaving the key on and the lights (which are always on with the key no matter what) and you're done. Call HOG roadside assistance? WTF.
I do like the valve lifters and manual advance on the Matchlesses. No endless agonizing over advance curves either. They start right up for me.
But, I digress...
I do like the valve lifters and manual advance on the Matchlesses. No endless agonizing over advance curves either. They start right up for me.
But, I digress...
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I've had a double by pass operation and three strokes, so I'm glad we don't have run and bump starts in races anymore. Back in the olden days there were guys who used to push start their CB750 Hondas and get really great starts by pressing the button as they pushed.
Nortons always needed six gears. How can anyone compete if they have to wait for the bike to respond to demand ? I suggest the simple fact is that Norton's main objective was always racing , not selling road bikes -(similar to Ferrari). The road bikes were only a bread and butter line of business - the company's lack of genuine interest shows through in their product. It would not have been too difficult to produce a big short stroke 360 degree twin with 4 valves per cylinder DOHC, and 6 speeds - it was never going to happen.
Nortons always needed six gears. How can anyone compete if they have to wait for the bike to respond to demand ? I suggest the simple fact is that Norton's main objective was always racing , not selling road bikes -(similar to Ferrari). The road bikes were only a bread and butter line of business - the company's lack of genuine interest shows through in their product. It would not have been too difficult to produce a big short stroke 360 degree twin with 4 valves per cylinder DOHC, and 6 speeds - it was never going to happen.
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79x100 said:I took the hacksaw to my Mk3 electric tart almost as soon as I got it. It went in the bin along with the indicators and mirrors from every other bike I'd owned. I'm with everiman on this. We young chaps just didn't want them. Extra weight on the bike together with a suggestion of poor physical condition in the rider.
Regardless of how it might seem now, there was a mystic to owning a large capacity British motorcycle forty years ago. The Japanese have made bikes accessible to everyone but it used to be necessary to almost follow an apprenticeship involving starting and maintenance. The old rituals are important and contribute to the subsequent enjoyment. Removing an LP from its sleeves and cueing up a turntable are similarly important rituals.
To be honest, the Commando could be lots more fun with manual ignition timing and a valve lifter to play with.
" a mystic to owning a large capacity British motorcycle forty years ago" Huh?? What were you chaps smoking over there in Flanders? ( and do you have any more?)
MF
Throw some arrowheads into this thread and we'll go another 100 posts. did you ever think it was the way you were brought up? my dad loved big singles; AJS's were the coolest thing to him; Nortons, BSA's, Triumphs, Ariel........that's what I heard growing up. But it was the 60's then and British bikes were the Cat's-Ass ! The bikes had soul; you worked on 'em. They were cool. So, we pass down the mystique to our kids; Norton's will always be....generations hence. Today the old bikes are respected and don't get trashed, left outside, etc. They will always be. 961's, Thruxton's???? "What once was, will be again"....they are proof.
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"I took the hacksaw to my Mk3 electric tart almost as soon as I got it. It went in the bin along with the indicators and mirrors from every other bike I'd owned. I'm with everiman on this."
Why purchase a MKIII in that situation? Why not get a '71 750, for example, that was much lighter and faster, and you wouldn't have had to remove all that stuff because it wasn't there in the first place?
Frankly, I guess I was a weenie because at age 26 I had grown quite tired of kickstarting my '71 Commando while everyone else was already down the road - let's don't even talk about stalling it in heavy traffic at a stop light - so after 7 years of ownership I sold it to buy a Honda 750F.
Kinda wish I still had that 750F...
Why purchase a MKIII in that situation? Why not get a '71 750, for example, that was much lighter and faster, and you wouldn't have had to remove all that stuff because it wasn't there in the first place?
Frankly, I guess I was a weenie because at age 26 I had grown quite tired of kickstarting my '71 Commando while everyone else was already down the road - let's don't even talk about stalling it in heavy traffic at a stop light - so after 7 years of ownership I sold it to buy a Honda 750F.
Kinda wish I still had that 750F...
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