Why no Electric starter til 1975?

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speirmoor

speirmoor

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The Norton Electra had an electric start in 1965 and probably not the first Norton either with an electric starter. Was it a economic decision or weight decision to not have a starter on the Commando? Economic sounds ok but why develop one when the company was doing so bad I mean that must have cost a fortune?
 
Because they were stupid and did not see the trend coming until it was too late :roll:

Jean
 
why no electric starter?

I suspect the reason was because back then they were busy selling some 60,000 Commandos and us youngins
buying them did not kick and scream to our dealers insisting on electric start.

By 1974 things were changing, we wanted no leaks, good electronic switchgear and key location, and it was by then then pretty ridiculous to spend some $2000 on a new bike that you had to kick over.

Honda 750 fours and Kawasaki 900 K1s were faster and much better build quality, it was over for Norton
 
The factory did intend to fit electric starters to Commandos from 1971, however, the idea was dropped as the starter drive would regularly self-destruct during testing (often wrecking the timing side crankcase in the process). The Norton management were apparently unaware of this serious problem until shortly before it was supposed to go into production.

Why no Electric starter til 1975?
 
That makes sense. It just feels like they went backwards for a while.Then again if they were selling thousands of them why change it until it got too late I guess
 
Unless my memory is wrong, the Commando kicked all asses in Cycle World 1970 test, which included a Honda 750 four. Kawi 900 came later (again, my memory, a bit iffy at times) but before that 750 h2 smoker that laid waste to pretty much everything. Not in 1970 tho, the Commando was king of the 1/4 mile and the Honda 750 four was an also ran. I believe the braking on the Commando also got higher marks than the Honda, hard as that may be to believe now.
 
L.A.B. said:
The factory did intend to fit electric starters to Commandos from 1971, however, the idea was dropped as the starter drive would regularly self-destruct during testing (often wrecking the timing side crankcase in the process). The Norton management were apparently unaware of this serious problem until shortly before it was supposed to go into production.

Why no Electric starter til 1975?
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My combat motor has the three bolt plate where I guess the starter was meant to go? I am surprised that no one has figured out how to put an aftermarket starter in the same location that is pictured above.

I mean, how hard would it have been for the Brits to reverse engineer a decent starter from the Japanese? My Wife's 69 Honda CL350 has a starter and it works just fine.
 
worntorn said:
Unless my memory is wrong, the Commando kicked all asses in Cycle World 1970 test, which included a Honda 750 four. Kawi 900 came later (again, my memory, a bit iffy at times) but before that 750 h2 smoker that laid waste to pretty much everything. Not in 1970 tho, the Commando was king of the 1/4 mile and the Honda 750 four was an also ran. I believe the braking on the Commando also got higher marks than the Honda, hard as that may be to believe now.
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Worse than the Norton disc, eek.
Nah, in 1976 my dad had a secondhand 750four, possibly a 72, I was on the back of it when he had to emergency brake, front wheel locked, and I nearly left the bike over him.

On my first Commando, I ran a stock master cylinder and disc and it was plain dangerous. First time we ever went to IOM to watch the TT I swapped bikes with my mate who had a Suzuki 650 Katana. I braked to stop at a t Junction on a downhill bit and he sailed past me, just stopped in time. After we swapped back he patted me on the back and said I was a brave man. Story still gets told every year.

With a sleeved or aftermarket master cylinder its perfectly good, I love mines now. :D
 
I mean, how hard would it have been for the Brits to reverse engineer a decent starter from the Japanese? My Wife's 69 Honda CL350 has a starter and it works just fine.
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my guess is that two big over 400cc pistons and a heavy flywheel were just too much for the batteries in those days to get spinning?

but then how did Guzzi do it, never mind..their battery looks like it came off a tractor

I don't think the lack of a good electric starter killed the British motorcycle industry in the 70s....

the handwriting was on the wall by 1973-74 as the Japanese simply built stronger and "better" bikes for
less money than a new Commando

the 1975 arguably was the very best Commando built, if you took acceleration and top end out of the deal
 
The answer might be that the other big Brit bikes did not have an electric starter. Why worry about those Japanese bikes. We beat them in WWII.
 
1up3down said:
but then how did Guzzi do it, never mind..their battery looks like it came off a tractor
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Moto Guzzi's are like cars.
Big old Bosch starter motor with solenoid throw out and a flywheel with a bolt on ring gear.
That goes back to the 1968 V700 and yes the battery is at least as big as a Norton cylinder (weight also maybe :D )
They also had belt driven generators and distributors until 1974.

Why no Electric starter til 1975?


This week I have been working on my 1973 Eldorado,the 1971 Norton's engine and some minor doings on the 07 Hypermotard.
What I can say is there is no comparison with working on a Moto Guzzi and Norton of the same period,both enjoyable to work on but the Norton has a lot of what were they thinking. (I have Triumphs also)
The MG is a breeze to work on (it is down to the crankshaft)
As far as a Commando with a starter on the timing side, I think the problem would have been lack of space for a decent reduction ratio.
Near all bikes used a sprag of some sort off the primary with a decent diameter secondary starter gear (that engages the sprag)
Ducati's of the same period uses all manner of chains,solenoid throw outs etc (dodgy) but even they went to a sprag etc on the primary by 1977 (900SD)
 
The main reason that anyone ever owns a commando is to grab hold of a piece of our past. The early 70s was a period of great change. In Australia we started dumbing down our education system and conditioning people to accept the plastic society. As evidence - the guys on this forum who cannot kick-start their bikes. They are the social product of the intent of globalization.
 
acotrel said:
The main reason that anyone ever owns a commando is to grab hold of a piece of our past. The early 70s was a period of great change. In Australia we started dumbing down our education system and conditioning people to accept the plastic society. As evidence - the guys on this forum who cannot kick-start their bikes. They are the social product of the intent of globalization.
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In the early 70's, well late really, I 'd happily kickstart me Commando. I'm 52 now, and whilst I still do kickstart my Commando, I can see the attraction of not having to!
Point taken though. Consider our forum as a fix to the educational system that you mention.
My son could not easily kickstart a Commando, it takes a bit of technique it's not part of the playstation generation, and I'd have to show him.
Plastic generation riders, wishing to grab a piece of the past, and new to older design bikes, need advice. Excellent forums like this one, can hopefully help to undo the dumbing down we have all suffered..........
 
acotrel said:
The main reason that anyone ever owns a commando is to grab hold of a piece of our past. The early 70s was a period of great change. In Australia we started dumbing down our education system and conditioning people to accept the plastic society. As evidence - the guys on this forum who cannot kick-start their bikes. They are the social product of the intent of globalization.
Click to expand...


I have a Rand McNally histogram. [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/...w.flickr.com/photos/8386704@N0 ... 58709839// It depicts the expansion and rece...edes which is like the chicken or egg debate.
 
When I brought my new Norton in 76 aged 17, I could have brought the 75 mark111 or the last of the 74 mark11 kick start Commando, I was only a skinny thing in them days but I went for the last of the kick start Norton, at the tme I throught I was a man not a pussy, who needs a button to start a bike, well I learned to kick start my Norton and still do and I never had any problems doing so even when I only weighted 9 stone nothing, if the Norton didn't start after the third kick you knew their was something wrong, once my Norton has started for the day it will always start on the first kick, just don't be lazy with the kick.

Ashley
 
Its a fine balance. Kick too hard and you will be replacing the pawl or breaking the kicker shaft.
 
You don't have to kick to hard, just don't be lazy with your kick, after 37 years of ownership and well over 150,000 miles I have replaced the kickstart pawl 4 times just from nomal wear and tear, not a big job to do and have never broken anything from kicking it over.

Ashley
 
acotrel said:
The main reason that anyone ever owns a commando is to grab hold of a piece of our past. The early 70s was a period of great change. In Australia we started dumbing down our education system and conditioning people to accept the plastic society. As evidence - the guys on this forum who cannot kick-start their bikes. They are the social product of the intent of globalization.
Click to expand...
+1 on that. I grew up around British singles and twins, and none of them had electric starts. You learned how to read what the engine needed by the way it responded to the sometimes feeble stomping-down on the lever. I have a co-worker who walks up to his H-D, turns on the key. and stabs a button. Fuel injection, throttle-by-wire, no thought, no "Is it hot enough to not use the choke?" He wants to ride the Norton. "Sure. First, you have to start it." "Where's the key?" FAIL!
For me, mastering the starting and riding of a Norton (or any older bike, for that matter) brings the same elation as the first time you can smoothly ride a bicycle with no hands. It's like another plateau, something that, I fear, is lost, save for the eccentric that hangs on to such things for reasons that are equally outmoded. At the ripe old age of 53, I can only assume my kickstart time is short, but, in the meantime, I'll take a certain smug satisfaction in being able to chew my own food and start my own motorcyle.
Nathan
 
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