Why no Electric starter til 1975?

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chasbmw said:
frankdamp said:
The basic reasons were 1.) crappy undersized batteries and 2.) very large and inefficient starter motors back in the late 1960s. Norton's complete obeisance to the Prince of Darkness (aka Lucas) added to the problem.
We forget nowadays what the US space program did for a lot of technologies. Prime among them was the development of rare-earth magnets for DC electric motors. I have an electric start Honda lawnmower, about 16 years old. The start batteries are 5 rechargeable D-cells in a small box mounted under the handlebars. The engine has a small generator that keeps the batteries charged. It's very rare that I need to use the recoil starter.
When I was at N-V, (early 1967 to Easter 1968) we investigated an electric starter, but the thing that Lucas suggested was about 6" diameter and 12" long. I think it was the same one they did for the Mini and Morris Minor. There was no way we could find room for it, and it would have been difficult to incorporate the kind of clutch they used on the cars.
My impression is that, until the Japanese bike manufacturers came up with their concept of electric start, N-V were stuck with whatever Lucase was flogging. Even then, the early version wasn't called electric starting, but "electrically assisted kick start".
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nav should have moved to Bosch, who had reliable high out put alternators and starter motors that were (usually) man enough to start BMWS, Moto Guzzis and Laverdas, all big twins and the Laverda left out the kick start lever. This was available from 1970 onwards and the starter motors were conventional ones, though the later Permenant magnet staters are much better.
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There was also the tin box manufactures at Dagenham who asked the British electrical manufactures for a 100 watt car alternator for one of their luxury models which had power steering, air conditioning e.t.c.
None would oblige.
Guess who did :?:
Bosch
 
"The basic reasons were 1.) crappy undersized batteries and 2.) very large and inefficient starter motors back in the late 1960s. Norton's complete obeisance to the Prince of Darkness (aka Lucas) added to the problem."

isn't the MK3 starter a US built item? I thought it was a Prestolite, same brand as used on the Harley back then.
In stock 2 pole form it may not be much of a starter,but we cant blame it on poor old much maligned Lucas!

Glen
 
I tried to get N-V interested in Bosch electrical stuff, or even Wipac, but they were so scared of (or besotted by) Lucas it was a waste of breath. The argument was that the US market wouldn't recognise Bosch!

Interestingly our Managing Director at the time was Dr. Stefan Bauer who still had a German accent you could spot half a mile away. I think the blocking against anyone but Lucas came from Plumstead. Also, Lucas made the wiring harnesses for the Commando. I thought we could have done those in house at lower cost and better quality, but got nowhere with the idea.
 
Seems like I remember some Bosch stuff on a funny little car called the Volkswagen Beetle. Those things took America by storm! People loved 'em. Funny how stuff goes. Just fwiw, I have a Perkins diesel in my boat. 1964 vintage motor that has a Lucas starter. It took me a while to have the confidence to rebuild those starters myself. I mean, there is a shop where they do that stuff for a living! But after I starter rebuilding them myself they stopped failing every year. It had a lot to do with the positive post being soldered on to the field coils, I riveted it and the insulation on the coils being made out of cardboard. I started using polyester ribbon from my wife's sewing kit. They last for years now.

Russ
 
JimC said:
You sure about that past TDC technique, Dave? Any kickstart bike I've started and I've started them for 56 years, I brought them up on compression before I give it what for.
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Ditto that, especially for big singles. Ya get more snap out of it. The crank accelerates sooner and goes quicker.
 
A good ignition and tight carburetors make for easy starting. Too many Brit bikes of that era were too hard to start, or at least there was too much uncertainty about whether they would start, or whether you'd get in a sweat or be late to where ever you were going because it didn't start . . . . . . right away.

Today, my 73 Commando 750 is an easy reliable one kick, maybe two kick starter. No way was that the case for me with my brand new 71 Commando back in 71. It was only a few thousand miles before I had to learn how to tune around the leaky carb slides and how to lock down that Lucas AAU.

If they started as easily then as they do now, it wouldn't have been an issue, at least for a few more years.
 
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