- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 18,978
highdesert wrote:
Steve, in language for dummies like me to understand, can you explain the function, set up, and perceived advantages of this rod linkage setup you have fashioned?
John
-----------------------------------
I'm scratching at straws to understand how
the rear, low, far from the isolastic mount linkage for leverage,
plus two slightly non rigid lesser helpers at front and top,
work to transform the ride and handling experience of my Commando.
I only know that at ordinary rates it feels Huge Monolithic Solid Inertia,
totally transparent to nuances of road texture, undulations and wind gusts
and tire wear behavior.
I am pretty sure tri links make a Cdo much safer for hazard
avoidance at sane speeds. The worst I ever twisted up
Ms Peel was cresting a ridge when rear tire bead popped
off rim and hi sided me side ways at 50 mph, I reflexively
aimed fork in direction of travel so hard I broke off
fork stops and bashed in front of IS fiber glass tank,
but rode her down, then turned around and limped
6 miles back home, cutting bead wires out now and then.
I don't think other bikes could sustain such loads w/o springing
a frame release to launch head over tea kettle with de rimmed
tire sliding side ways. Took some seconds of wild oscillations
to either extreme before I could breath again.
I only know that so far exceeding phase 2 - two tires down
counter steering, into phase 3 - both tires loose straight steering,
into phase 4 - controlled induced trip outs to low sides for the high
side sharp saves, into beginnings of phase 5 - mostly upright
constant rear grind-spin straight steering - >
Peel has never surprised or scared me nor required any skill
but basic balance and throttle control.
Jet Fighter breath control at times to keep blood enough to see
clear in the tunnel vision induced by blood drain out head.
Bryan Tryee in '70's put first front link on to tame rain
groove hunting on his commutes.
Bob Patton observation was rear patch levers through
rear iso as a pivot to bump and twist at front isolastic.
I too have closely watched my buddies total clapped
out swing arm and 1/4" gap front isolastic to see this
in action. I also rode this sloppy Commando to see
how it felt and behaved, as rare a Cdo that bad still on road.
It was fine to toss about, lane switches to sharp turns - mere twitch
taking up slack, but boy howdy pressed in a steady state sweeper
a bit over posted speed got too weave wobble hinged for me.
Head steady is just a bit smoothing to the thick icing of other two.
So little help compared not worth discussing further. Dave Taylor
marketed the first design. All other links are DIY so far.
I think what happens is as front is pulling forks one way
and rear the other way. frame can twist up to take out
the traction conflicts yet does not spring back like regular
Cdo till you want it too, and then only in one action like a sling shot
release, un-twist no recoil, not like plucking a springing lever or
bouncing a rubber ball - that all other bikes now seem to me.
This is not sensed until really over powering into turns,
not something most will press that hard in public to feel much of.
I made a robust rear link ala Patton criteria, but front
and top links have some spring shaft compliance a mm or so.
It may turn out the rigid front and top links will make
Cod too ringing rigid like the sports bikes I spank so easy
they are no longer fun or on my thoughts as any competition.
It may turn out I'm wrong and I would like the more rigid
front and top links, like all the others nicer ones displayed.
It takes two wide placed radius rods to obtain Watt's linear travel
Watt's full range orbital animation, only middle travel applies to Cdo's.
http://www.brockeng.com/mechanism/Watt.htm
Here photo's how I did Peel, crude but will polish up some later
and use nicer rod shaft spacers than a spring or hose I grabbed.
Whole triplex link kit in pieces
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2515864 ... 1179rvtCJF
Rump rod frame stud and cradle stud construction.
Stud welded to frame, cradle side is bolt on.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2522397 ... 1179eOsGOP
Rump rod installed
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1040309 ... 1179NBoCCa
Front link eyes oriented not to conflict with rump rod eye orientation.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1383257 ... 1179izKHos
Top view top link
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1161910 ... 1179oxAHZG
LH view top link
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1161909 ... 1179jiTvnP
RH view top link
http://image14.webshots.com/15/0/66/37/ ... Ayy_fs.jpg
hobot
Steve, in language for dummies like me to understand, can you explain the function, set up, and perceived advantages of this rod linkage setup you have fashioned?
John
-----------------------------------
I'm scratching at straws to understand how
the rear, low, far from the isolastic mount linkage for leverage,
plus two slightly non rigid lesser helpers at front and top,
work to transform the ride and handling experience of my Commando.
I only know that at ordinary rates it feels Huge Monolithic Solid Inertia,
totally transparent to nuances of road texture, undulations and wind gusts
and tire wear behavior.
I am pretty sure tri links make a Cdo much safer for hazard
avoidance at sane speeds. The worst I ever twisted up
Ms Peel was cresting a ridge when rear tire bead popped
off rim and hi sided me side ways at 50 mph, I reflexively
aimed fork in direction of travel so hard I broke off
fork stops and bashed in front of IS fiber glass tank,
but rode her down, then turned around and limped
6 miles back home, cutting bead wires out now and then.
I don't think other bikes could sustain such loads w/o springing
a frame release to launch head over tea kettle with de rimmed
tire sliding side ways. Took some seconds of wild oscillations
to either extreme before I could breath again.
I only know that so far exceeding phase 2 - two tires down
counter steering, into phase 3 - both tires loose straight steering,
into phase 4 - controlled induced trip outs to low sides for the high
side sharp saves, into beginnings of phase 5 - mostly upright
constant rear grind-spin straight steering - >
Peel has never surprised or scared me nor required any skill
but basic balance and throttle control.
Jet Fighter breath control at times to keep blood enough to see
clear in the tunnel vision induced by blood drain out head.
Bryan Tryee in '70's put first front link on to tame rain
groove hunting on his commutes.
Bob Patton observation was rear patch levers through
rear iso as a pivot to bump and twist at front isolastic.
I too have closely watched my buddies total clapped
out swing arm and 1/4" gap front isolastic to see this
in action. I also rode this sloppy Commando to see
how it felt and behaved, as rare a Cdo that bad still on road.
It was fine to toss about, lane switches to sharp turns - mere twitch
taking up slack, but boy howdy pressed in a steady state sweeper
a bit over posted speed got too weave wobble hinged for me.
Head steady is just a bit smoothing to the thick icing of other two.
So little help compared not worth discussing further. Dave Taylor
marketed the first design. All other links are DIY so far.
I think what happens is as front is pulling forks one way
and rear the other way. frame can twist up to take out
the traction conflicts yet does not spring back like regular
Cdo till you want it too, and then only in one action like a sling shot
release, un-twist no recoil, not like plucking a springing lever or
bouncing a rubber ball - that all other bikes now seem to me.
This is not sensed until really over powering into turns,
not something most will press that hard in public to feel much of.
I made a robust rear link ala Patton criteria, but front
and top links have some spring shaft compliance a mm or so.
It may turn out the rigid front and top links will make
Cod too ringing rigid like the sports bikes I spank so easy
they are no longer fun or on my thoughts as any competition.
It may turn out I'm wrong and I would like the more rigid
front and top links, like all the others nicer ones displayed.
It takes two wide placed radius rods to obtain Watt's linear travel
Watt's full range orbital animation, only middle travel applies to Cdo's.
http://www.brockeng.com/mechanism/Watt.htm
Here photo's how I did Peel, crude but will polish up some later
and use nicer rod shaft spacers than a spring or hose I grabbed.
Whole triplex link kit in pieces
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2515864 ... 1179rvtCJF
Rump rod frame stud and cradle stud construction.
Stud welded to frame, cradle side is bolt on.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2522397 ... 1179eOsGOP
Rump rod installed
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1040309 ... 1179NBoCCa
Front link eyes oriented not to conflict with rump rod eye orientation.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1383257 ... 1179izKHos
Top view top link
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1161910 ... 1179oxAHZG
LH view top link
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1161909 ... 1179jiTvnP
RH view top link
http://image14.webshots.com/15/0/66/37/ ... Ayy_fs.jpg
hobot