V4CR LAUNCH

Anyone praising gardner has lost ALL credibility with me.

How's THAT for a lump sum?

A man that ruined MANY peoples' lives to get his jollies, and built rolling disasters (many of which will never be rectified). YEEF!
 
First, for the record, I think differences of opinions, or points of view are healthy to all society, not just this forum.
And venting those opinions is a way of relieving pressure, and frustration.
All good here.

Secondly, what people are missing is that there is most likely a plan, Dr. Bob's plan, for the future of Norton.
Will that plan precisely match the plan of other motorcycle manufacturer?
Probably not. Dr. Bob is not John Bloor, or Willy Davidson, and Norton is not Triumph, or Harley.
I don't think Dr Bob is reading the comments on this forum to develop his future path for Norton.

The V4CR is Dr Bob's attempt to test the waters for what the Norton buyer's market will accept.
If he can sell the 200 at £40+K, then he will know that there are sufficient buyers out there for his future products.
Those buyers are purchasing a NORTON, along with all of the historical lore, prestige, even if a less expensive model from another manufacturer will clean it's clock on the track.

SG was able to produce and sell more bikes than TVS/Norton have, but he did it by defrauding investors, turning out under engineered models, that caused innumerable problems for owners and dealers. In the end, SG did everything humanly possible to destroy the reputation of the brand.
I think the slow deliberate action of Dr Bob has been to insure that there is no repeat of that debacle.
 
First, for the record, I think differences of opinions, or points of view are healthy to all society, not just this forum.
And venting those opinions is a way of relieving pressure, and frustration.
All good here.

Secondly, what people are missing is that there is most likely a plan, Dr. Bob's plan, for the future of Norton.
Will that plan precisely match the plan of other motorcycle manufacturer?
Probably not. Dr. Bob is not John Bloor, or Willy Davidson, and Norton is not Triumph, or Harley.
I don't think Dr Bob is reading the comments on this forum to develop his future path for Norton.

The V4CR is Dr Bob's attempt to test the waters for what the Norton buyer's market will accept.
If he can sell the 200 at £40+K, then he will know that there are sufficient buyers out there for his future products.
Those buyers are purchasing a NORTON, along with all of the historical lore, prestige, even if a less expensive model from another manufacturer will clean it's clock on the track.

SG was able to produce and sell more bikes than TVS/Norton have, but he did it by defrauding investors, turning out under engineered models, that caused innumerable problems for owners and dealers. In the end, SG did everything humanly possible to destroy the reputation of the brand.
I think the slow deliberate action of Dr Bob has been to insure that there is no repeat of that debacle.
Better stated than my concurring opinion.
 
Anyone praising gardner has lost ALL credibility with me.

How's THAT for a lump sum?

A man that ruined MANY peoples' lives to get his jollies, and built rolling disasters (many of which will never be rectified). YEEF!
I praised him? Hmmmm I’m pretty sure I said he was a conman.
He did after all bring the 961 to market.

Nowhere did I praise him.
 
Ah V2D3, are you blatantly Norton bashing again - on a Norton enthusiasts forum? Personally, I don’t see the point.


Let’s come back to this discussion in 12-18 months. If they have sold the lot Voodoo, I have absolutely no doubt that you will still find a negative to focus upon.
it's not bashing, it's "conversation." this was the same thing everyone said about the 961 and here we are 12-18 months I mean 3 years later, and we still don't have the whole picture of what is actually selling plus still issues with parts etc.

I think what I see as "the point" is that "why bother with the V4" when there are better markets to serve
 
The only way to praise SG now is in a backhanded manner:
As corrupt as SG was, he couldn't hold a candle to Bernie Madoff.
 
Well that turbo charged the conversation - and I’m guilty! Came to this thread late, after a bottle (or two) of red, saw Voodoo’s last half dozen posts and played the man rather than the ball - apologies Voodoo. We all get our opinion, or why bother with a forum of this type. Guess I gotta re-learn that occasionally.

I don’t think anyone is blindly praising TVS’s every move - we know there is plenty to criticise. Pace of development and communication being the principle two. They are and will no doubt continue to run at a loss as they build their brand and reputation back from the ashes left by Garner.

Let’s not underestimate the damage he did by publicly building up the brand with sharp talk and slick marketing, borrowing lots from the government and then totally trashing the brands name (along with some peoples futures). Kindly leaving the 961 as a lasting reminder of his at all cost approach. I have no doubt he wanted Norton to succeed - more than anything - enough to commit crimes - but cannot reconcile his approach. But TVS Norton is not Garner Norton.

IMO they are brand building - in a steady, obviously measured way - no doubt learning a little from Garners failures whilst overcoming that reputational legacy. Can anyone remember how long it took Bloor to get Triumph up and running with a decent model lineup? Were they not a bit of a laughing stock prior? Norton need to expand and the US is key to eventual success - if they can make it stick - as we know, they are planning to expand to the US.

For me, this is why the next offerings are so important and will be so informative - this is the first none legacy bike after all. Will Norton go premium or aim at a wider market? My guess is more affordable. Are they currently measuring success with 961 and V4 sales against that future direction - maybe. I think they will already have a plan in train though and only time will tell what that is - they obviously ain’t telling. As has been said many times, it looks like they are playing the long game, reputation and brand building.

I might venture that a balanced approach in commentary, that acknowledges what we do not know (like their plan), may be a better option than viewing most things through a negative lense with a hologram of Garner etched to its surface. My opinion only though - we should voice what we want to voice. We’re not playing by anybody else’s rules - most certainly not mine!
 
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You know, these threads truly are all b&^$t.

Littered with agenda driven opinions from people who don't know, weren't asked, and would fail worse than Garner if ever given an actual opportunity.

It's time to separate "961" technical content from "brand bashing overly opinionated retires than don't like change" - cause you're all getting f^$king tiresome.
 
Well that turbo charged the conversation - and I’m guilty! Came to this thread late, after a bottle (or two) of red, saw Voodoo’s last half dozen posts and played the man rather than the ball - apologies Voodoo. We all get our opinion, or why bother with a forum of this type. Guess I gotta re-learn that occasionally.

I don’t think anyone is blindly praising TVS’s every move - we know there is plenty to criticise. Pace of development and communication being the principle two. They are and will no doubt continue to run at a loss as they build their brand and reputation back from the ashes left by Garner.

Let’s not underestimate the damage he did by publicly building up the brand with sharp talk and slick marketing, borrowing lots from the government and then totally trashing the brands name (along with some peoples futures). Kindly leaving the 961 as a lasting reminder of his at all cost approach. I have no doubt he wanted Norton to succeed - more than anything - enough to commit crimes - but cannot reconcile his approach. But TVS Norton is not Garner Norton.

IMO they are brand building - in a steady, obviously measured way - no doubt learning a little from Garners failures whilst overcoming that reputational legacy. Can anyone remember how long it took Bloor to get Triumph up and running with a decent model lineup? Were they not a bit of a laughing stock prior? Norton need to expand and the US is key to eventual success - if they can make it stick - as we know, they are planning to expand to the US.

For me, this is why the next offerings are so important and will be so informative - this is the first none legacy bike after all. Will Norton go premium or aim at a wider market? My guess is more affordable. Are they currently measuring success with 961 and V4 sales against that future direction - maybe. I think they will already have a plan in train though and only time will tell what that is - they obviously ain’t telling. As has been said many times, it looks like they are playing the long game, reputation and brand building.

I might venture that a balanced approach in commentary, that acknowledges what we do not know (like their plan), may be a better option than viewing most things through a negative lense with a hologram of Garner etched to its surface. My opinion only though - we should voice what we want to voice. We’re not playing by anybody else’s rules - most certainly not mine!
I don’t think anyone is blindly praising TVS’s every move - we know there is plenty to criticise.

You always praise them and defend them.
Anytime I say anything about TVS Norton you become offended and feel the need to defend them. Or was that the wine talking?

People really need to stop with the Garner thing. I mean everyone pretty much knows he’s no longer a part of Norton.

Sure, what he did was wrong and we all agree on that. But really. Come on, TVS has nothing to do with Garner or the way they run the business.
It’s shown that people in the UK who want a Norton can get one.
If Conman Garner really tarnished the Norton name, why are people placing orders on the 961 and soon the $46k V4?
He hurt the ones he screwed over and stolen from. Nobody else.
We all know, none of them would buy a TVS Norton.

TVS go way to slow and still, over 3 years later have nothing. They haven’t designed a single bike of their own. Making changes or improvements are one thing. But the fact is Donington designed every bike TVS Norton has.

Why do they not offer the Nomad line up? Why not the Superlite? Why were they hesitant on the 961?

Everyone in the world knows affordability sells. Henry Ford proved that.
Nobody is saying TVS shouldn’t offer a V4 Model or two. But selling $46k bikes isn’t going to get them out of debt or out of the Red.
 
You know, these threads truly are all b&^$t.

Littered with agenda driven opinions from people who don't know, weren't asked, and would fail worse than Garner if ever given an actual opportunity.

It's time to separate "961" technical content from "brand bashing overly opinionated retires than don't like change" - cause you're all getting f^$king tiresome.
Why are you here then?

I don’t believe anyone is brand bashing. If you’re referring to my comments about how the asking price of $46k is high for what the competition offers, I’m sorry.

I own two 961 bikes. I paid my dues and in my opinion I myself, just like you can post your opinions on this very forum. If someone doesn’t like that, well, you have options.
1) block them
2) ignore them
3) don’t read the comments or just go to the topics and threads that interest you.
 
Why are you here then?

I don’t believe anyone is brand bashing. If you’re referring to my comments about how the asking price of $46k is high for what the competition offers, I’m sorry.

I own two 961 bikes. I paid my dues and in my opinion I myself, just like you can post your opinions on this very forum. If someone doesn’t like that, well, you have options.
1) block them
2) ignore them
3) don’t read the comments or just go to the topics and threads that interest you.
@Voodooo you have too much factual knowledge to be ignored - and it wasn’t aimed at you. Carry on as you were :D

But you know there’s lots of garbage in these threads. Seriously.
 
@Voodooo you have too much factual knowledge to be ignored - and it wasn’t aimed at you. Carry on as you were :D

But you know there’s lots of garbage in these threads. Seriously.
I agree with you
And I know nothing.
 
as I said after the January factory visit, they said that they are developing 3 or 4 new models. What the outside world will not know ( until they reveal them) is what these are and when they will be start to be sold. End of.
 
as I said after the January factory visit, they said that they are developing 3 or 4 new models. What the outside world will not know ( until they reveal them) is what these are and when they will be start to be sold. End of.
Well, I for one respect that, thats what Bloor did - shut up and got on with it !

We do now know a bit more though, next new model due by end ‘24 according to recent news.
 
Well, I for one respect that, thats what Bloor did - shut up and got on with it !

We do now know a bit more though, next new model due by end ‘24 according to recent news.
That’s interesting - hadn’t heard that!

Guess we’d hope to hear what that will be by mid 24, maybe!

I’d lay money on a more affordable offering(s) - but I’d be guessing of course.
 
But selling $46k bikes isn’t going to get them out of debt or out of the Red.
I think they have deep pockets to start with. That makes all the difference, not having the sword poised over your neck...
 
... thats what Bloor did - shut up and got on with it !
With a modular foundation that allowed for multiple models, in multiple displacements, right from the green light.

Great plan, and it paid off HUGE. As soon as the triples and fours were selling (didn't take long), along came the New Bonnie, then the Tiger, and the rest is history (never mind the "Thaiumph" nurds)
 
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