V4CR LAUNCH

speirmoor said:
Thats going to take a while I guess :(
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Plan on 3 years. The same time it took them to announce the 961 that was already a motorcycle made by Dreer and sold by Garner.
Of course I’m talking dog years. So plan on 21 years. Or just buy a Norton Comet EV
 
TonyA said:
Hey Guys , just wondering if the economies of scale are such that they can't make or sell it for less ? What would they have to do to knock that price down ? Start with an aluminum gas tank not CF and go to Showa and Nissin for brakes / suspension . Get cheaper mag wheels from whoever etc.. How much is that engine and frame costing them to make ??? Cut out all of the polishing and make it satin finish bare bones so to speak. Offer the upmarket version with all the expensive stuff for those willing to pay for it. Can they make it for $30K out the door. ?
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Ducati and Mv make similar bikes (and also more expensive) with the same or better components.
Both the Ducati street fighter and MV Brutale make more power, have equal or better components and cost $20k usd less.
 
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Voodooo said:
Ducati and Mv make similar bikes (and also more expensive) with the same or better components.
Both the Ducati street fighter and MV Brutale make more power, have equal or better components and cost $20k usd less.
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Hi Voodooo , I read that you sold your Harley . What will you take your long trip on now ?
 
TonyA said:
Hi Voodooo , I read that you sold your Harley . What will you take your long trip on now ?
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Lately I haven’t had time for any trips. I’m so far behind with business it’s consuming all my time and putting me behind on other life and personal projects.

That motorcycle cross country trip is a dream but so far not a reality.
 
Voodooo said:
Ducati and Mv make similar bikes (and also more expensive) with the same or better components.
Both the Ducati street fighter and MV Brutale make more power, have equal or better components and cost $20k usd less.
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But they aren't Nortons...
 
Only 200 to be made is an exclusive club. Just as exclusive as the Dominator SS and they had no problem selling them
 
Voodooo said:
Either is TVS
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Ummmmm, no. They bought the rights to the name, and that's the name that appears on all the NORTONS they build. Totally legit.

And 8,497 times better than any gardner.

Let's see what gets printed on the titles as "manufacturer". There is only ONE WAY for it to say "Norton", and that is if it it is indeed a Norton.

Your opinion is just that, not based in facts.
 
grandpaul said:
Ummmmm, no. They bought the rights to the name, and that's the name that appears on all the NORTONS they build. Totally legit.

And 8,497 times better than any gardner.

Let's see what gets printed on the titles as "manufacturer". There is only ONE WAY for it to say "Norton", and that is if it it is indeed a Norton.

Your opinion is just that, not based in facts.
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But wait!

How is my comment not based on facts?

You first said that MV and Ducatis aren’t Nortons. Isn’t that pretty obvious? I mean those do say Mv Agusta or Ducati on them. Clearly doesn’t say Norton. That would be wrong.

I’m curious how the TVS Norton is exactly 8,497 times better than gardner? You have facts of this or just your opinion?

How long has it been since a Norton won anything in the racing world? I’d go on a limb and say Ducati and even MV have more wins and are even more known in the current generation of their existence.

You can’t even buy a new Norton here in our country and won’t anytime soon. Good luck with your title work.

When I purchased my Commando and Domi, it was a total disaster at the DMV.

WHY?
Because at two Michigan DMV’s, they didn’t have a listing for a 2000 something Norton. To them there wasn’t such a brand in the 2000s

When AMF owned Harley Davidson, do you think prior and current owners consider a AMF Harley a true Harley?
Good luck with that at your local HOG hang out. Oink oink.
 
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If TVS Norton had some racing wins and proven themselves, I could see them selling ice to an Eskimo.
I know they’ll probably sell all the v4 bikes they make, but in my opinion, they’re nothing special and over priced for what you’re getting. You’re paying for a name that’s of yet to prove itself to anyone.
 
Ah V2D3, are you blatantly Norton bashing again - on a Norton enthusiasts forum? Personally, I don’t see the point.

Still measuring success around sales in a country (US) where they are yet to be marketed. Still relating TVS Norton to Garner Norton! Still measuring potential success around racing, when it is not viable, advisable or even appropriate for a fledgling business. And on ……….!

The V4 is expensive. I suspect mainly because it is a low volume, high spec, hand built (non automated) machine. No economies of scale, no automation, no offset to a huge range of like machines. Just look at the quality of the frame, which is hand made in-house. I strongly suspect that they could not market the V4 at a much lower price if they are to make an acceptable profit.

Those who want an exclusive (200 only) offering that just happens to be produced by the most renowned British motorcycle manufacturer in history may be happy to pay the asking price. Absolutely no-one buying one of these machines has race winning prowess in mind, beyond an historical context.

Let’s come back to this discussion in 12-18 months. If they have sold the lot Voodoo, I have absolutely no doubt that you will still find a negative to focus upon.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Ah V2D3, are you blatantly Norton bashing again - on a Norton enthusiasts forum? Personally, I don’t see the point.

Still measuring success around sales in a country (US) where they are yet to be marketed. Still relating TVS Norton to Garner Norton! Still measuring potential success around racing, when it is not viable, advisable or even appropriate for a fledgling business. And on ……….!

The V4 is expensive. I suspect mainly because it is a low volume, high spec, hand built (non automated) machine. No economies of scale, no automation, no offset to a huge range of like machines. Just look at the quality of the frame, which is hand made in-house. I strongly suspect that they could not market the V4 at a much lower price if they are to make an acceptable profit.

Those who want an exclusive (200 only) offering that just happens to be produced by the most renowned British motorcycle manufacturer in history may be happy to pay the asking price. Absolutely no-one buying one of these machines has race winning prowess in mind, beyond an historical context.

Let’s come back to this discussion in 12-18 months. If they have sold the lot Voodoo, I have absolutely no doubt that you will still find a negative to focus upon.
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Facts are whether we like it or not, Garner sold more Nortons than TVS have, and 18 months time will still have sold more than TVS Norton. Profit at Norton as it stands will never happen, they have just posted a £29m loss according the the The Times, couple this with the £14m for the previous 12 months and the money they initially invested is not confidence inspring that anyone at Solihull knows what they are doing or where they are going. It is just not me than can do the sums and work out that 8,000 bikes a year will not make a dent in the annual losses let alone recover what they have invested so far, if I can work that so can their shareholders. Considering that Norton still don't have any hint of a plan for the US market, then I suggest the 12-18 month timescale you suggest is not long enough. For premium products the US is the market to crack and as it stands Norton seem to be well and truly disregarding what could be their best selling area for their products - the mind boggles as to why, it could help put a dent in their losses. Considering everything they aim for at the moment is in the small UK market, then I don't hold out much hope despite the wealth of the Parent group. 12-18 months should be more like 5-7 years. If sales of whatever models, current and future, in the UK market flop then I see a different ending to this discussion in the future and it won't be a rosy one.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Ah V2D3, are you blatantly Norton bashing again - on a Norton enthusiasts forum? Personally, I don’t see the point.

Still measuring success around sales in a country (US) where they are yet to be marketed. Still relating TVS Norton to Garner Norton! Still measuring potential success around racing, when it is not viable, advisable or even appropriate for a fledgling business. And on ……….!

The V4 is expensive. I suspect mainly because it is a low volume, high spec, hand built (non automated) machine. No economies of scale, no automation, no offset to a huge range of like machines. Just look at the quality of the frame, which is hand made in-house. I strongly suspect that they could not market the V4 at a much lower price if they are to make an acceptable profit.

Those who want an exclusive (200 only) offering that just happens to be produced by the most renowned British motorcycle manufacturer in history may be happy to pay the asking price. Absolutely no-one buying one of these machines has race winning prowess in mind, beyond an historical context.

Let’s come back to this discussion in 12-18 months. If they have sold the lot Voodoo, I have absolutely no doubt that you will still find a negative to focus upon.
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People get negative when they CARE !

Anyone can whoop, whoop, and lavish praise on their every move.

But some people who care about Norton, and their future, decide to voice their opinions and frustrations when they see, what they believe are, bad business decisions being made.

Such ‘negativity’ is usually far more productive and helpful than blind optimism / praise.

I would suggest it is as simple as that.

Personally, I’m trying hard to stay more on your side of the fence Stephen, as I’ve said before, I believe Norton are primarily ‘brand building’ at the moment and have no intention that the current range of bikes will turn them into profit, I believe they’re playing a longer game about building the brand and ‘preparing us’ for EVs.

The problem is, whilst they’re doing this, they’re not really catering for motorcyclists, which irrespective of all the hype generation, is actually quite important for a motorcycle manufacturer…

Historically speaking, super premium brands do not have a high success rate, DMC, Hesketh, etc, etc…
 
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The lads from Iconic were London recently and said Norton are retailing cashmere sweaters for £1200 at the BikeShed
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Ah V2D3, are you blatantly Norton bashing again - on a Norton enthusiasts forum? Personally, I don’t see the point.

Still measuring success around sales in a country (US) where they are yet to be marketed. Still relating TVS Norton to Garner Norton! Still measuring potential success around racing, when it is not viable, advisable or even appropriate for a fledgling business. And on ……….!

The V4 is expensive. I suspect mainly because it is a low volume, high spec, hand built (non automated) machine. No economies of scale, no automation, no offset to a huge range of like machines. Just look at the quality of the frame, which is hand made in-house. I strongly suspect that they could not market the V4 at a much lower price if they are to make an acceptable profit.

Those who want an exclusive (200 only) offering that just happens to be produced by the most renowned British motorcycle manufacturer in history may be happy to pay the asking price. Absolutely no-one buying one of these machines has race winning prowess in mind, beyond an historical context.

Let’s come back to this discussion in 12-18 months. If they have sold the lot Voodoo, I have absolutely no doubt that you will still find a negative to focus upon.
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SS
Once again, your overly positive outlook gets in the way of reality. You literally can not handle anytime I say ANYTHING negative of TVS.
Modern Norton is not the best motorcycle brand available in todays market. There, I said it.

Am I bashing them?
Nope.
I’m just being realistic.
TVS Norton is not proven or known to be anything of value or quality yet. They only have one toe in the water.
How many bikes do they have to owners in the real world so far?

As Fast Eddie and Madnorton say, passion and sale speak for themselves.

You often times disliked when I clearly voice my opinion, and that is absolutely ok. You have your opinions as well. This is a forum, forums are for voicing ones opinions, views, experiences etc.

You seem to think that I want Norton to fail and that simply isn’t true. I just disagree with the way they handle their business decisions. I’m a business owner myself and I see things in a different context.

Agreed, I don’t own a motorcycle company, but in “my opinion” I feel that they should have offered the Nomad and 961 bikes to build customer support and sales then offer the V4. We all remember that originally TVS wasn’t even considering the 961 line up until they realized the interest from the consumer.

For Christ sakes, they didn’t even offer accessories or clothing until recently. This is an easy way to make money.

You seem to picture me as this kind of person who thinks that the USA is the greatest and only country in the world to make things happen or that if it doesn’t happen here in the US, then they (TVS) will fail.
Again that’s a false assumption if that is what you think of me.
I know the world doesn’t need the USA to make it, and I also don’t believe that the USA is the best country in the world. Far from it.
But I do think that the USA motorcycle sales are an importance.
And I also think, my opinion here again, that TVS is missing out on sales by not selling motorcycles outside of the UK or Europe.

I will tell you this and you can disagree with me all you like and that’s fine, but conman Garner was a much better salesman and got his products available to the world in a better way then TVS has.
He clearly sold way more bikes than TVS Norton has and he’s done so with far less money and
In lees time.

I’m by no means saying his scams were good, but he knew that starting with motorcycles such as the 961 would sell better at first, and put him on the map, to get the brand name out there to be seen and known, then offer other motorcycle models.
He was in the process of offering a more affordable Nomad line up, the Superlite, the V4, all next to the 961.

Take my comments as negative and Norton bashing. That’s ok by me.
But also say that about EVERYONE else on this whole forum the next time they complain about something broken or not working right on their Norton. New or old.

Without people complaining, commenting on a bad experience with their purchase or ownership, break downs, repairs, etc. Nothing in life would ever improve and we’d still be riding on bicycles with 1 hp motors.
 
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