Update the battery charging system (2015)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Putting an H4 bulb in an original head lamp is a waste of time. It works in an H4 light unit. Fitting relays in the supply lines with heavier wires direct from the battery , gives you the brightest h4 set up you will see., { better lightning than an 8 year old Motoguzzi ]
However after fitting a "Trucklite/ or GE Nighthawk " LED headlamp [ $260.00 nz ] I now have the brightest light ever. It draws 1.8 amps on low beam and 3.6 AMPS on high beam [ both together ] whereas the H4 setup draws nearly 8 amps on either beam.
In conclusion, the original charging system is fine. the Nighthawk is cheaper than the complete replacement charging system.
If you change your charging system, you will still need to buy the LED to get better lights. There are LED bulbs out there that are cheaper, and that are supposed to be designed for the existing head lamp [ probably H4 ] but until someone can compare the 2 different systems, I would suggest the Nighthawk would be the best option.
My anytime rider has the Nighthawk. My 750 glamour girl has the h4 SETTUP. Maybe one day I will buy one of those LED bulbs and try it in the 750.

Dereck
 
pierodn said:
CanukNortonNut said:
pierodn said:
Hi All,
I ride with a 1971 Norton Commando 750 that mounts a new Pazon Sure Fire electronic ignition.
The bike fits all the original electrical parts, wiring, two Lucas 6V coils, Diode Zener, Rectifier, alternator, rotor, capacitor, etc.
I would like to update the charging system changing capacitor, diode zener and rectifier  in one, and replace the old alternator with a better one for have much more light in the night.
I'd like to receive your advices in order the best update, if one or three phases, and which parts to mount and the suppliers.
Thank you.
Piero
Click to expand...

P
start with Podtronics Single Phase POD-1p-MAX 12 volt 200 watt Rectifier-Regulator. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PODTRONICS-20 ... 1659530102
H-4 high low beam 60/55 watt headlamp.
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wirin ... _kits.html Get the high beam low beam relay kit.
http://www.bulbsthatlast4ever.com/products/679-si.html this takes the load off the alternator and gives good tail light/brake illumination
with the 4 above items you may not need to change the stock Rotor/stator in your primary. If your alternator stator is in good order. With a volt meter on a/c measure the two leads coming out of the primary which is from the stator, You should be seeing 20 volts A/C at 1750 RPM of engine speed. Give us this voltage on your 1971 Commando.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN
Click to expand...

Hi and thank you.
Please:
1.has the Podtronics you says the capacitor built in?
2 with h4 i need to change the stock bulbs?
Ciao
Piero
Click to expand...
Piero,
1. Yes
2. I believe you can change just the bulb (see other posts above) It is better if the lamp is designed for the halogen system.
You will get a brighter light if you use the relays as well (see other post above).
The easternbeaver type that I linked to you are nice and small and will fit into the head shell.
Are you getting any voltage from your stator? Do you have a voltmeter?
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN
 
Madnorton said:
Bigger battery does not always mean more amps - it will get to a point where the charging system will not be able to support it fully, and thus never really getting a good charge will result in a failed battery.
Click to expand...

Inaccurate. :(
 
concours said:
Madnorton said:
Bigger battery does not always mean more amps - it will get to a point where the charging system will not be able to support it fully, and thus never really getting a good charge will result in a failed battery.
Click to expand...

Inaccurate. :(
Click to expand...
If you can fit it, can afford it and don't mind the extra weight, anything goes (within reason). Also, a bigger battery won't last any longer the a smaller one.
A 180 watt stator, the 200 watt Podrtonic unit and a 14ah battery seems to be a good solid system for a non electric start bike. And it isn't too costly.
The POD-4-1-MAX is a 200 watt, single phase unit with a build in capacitor.
 
Hi All,
and thank you.
Andover supply the update kit to 3 phases: rotor, stator, podtronics power box, items n. 067329.
It costs 277 p, is much but i need , in any case, to replace the stator with one new.
What do you think about.
Ciao
Piero
 
pierodn said:
Hi All,
and thank you.
Andover supply the update kit to 3 phases: rotor, stator, podtronics power box, items n. 067329.
It costs 277 p, is much but i need , in any case, to replace the stator with one new.
What do you think about.
Ciao
Piero
Click to expand...
If your rotor is good you can use it for 3 phase system. The rotor is the same for all.
All you need is the 3 phase stator and the 3 phase Podtronis unit.

Remember, there is no capacitor (battery eliminator) in the 3 phase Podtronic Regulator-Rectifier.
 
concours said:
Madnorton said:
Bigger battery does not always mean more amps - it will get to a point where the charging system will not be able to support it fully, and thus never really getting a good charge will result in a failed battery.
Click to expand...

Inaccurate. :(
Click to expand...


Really, why are batteries and charging systems designed and matched with the characteristics of both in mind, the larger the capacity battery the larger the charging system has to be to support the battery.
 
Madnorton said:
Really, why are batteries and charging systems designed and matched with the characteristics of both in mind, the larger the capacity battery the larger the charging system has to be to support the battery.
Click to expand...

The charging system is really supporting the drain on the battery. A low charge rate into a big battery is not a bad thing in any serious way. A big battery takes longer to charge and longer to discharge.
 
Madnorton said:
concours said:
Madnorton said:
Bigger battery does not always mean more amps - it will get to a point where the charging system will not be able to support it fully, and thus never really getting a good charge will result in a failed battery.
Click to expand...

Inaccurate. :(
Click to expand...


Really, why are batteries and charging systems designed and matched with the characteristics of both in mind, the larger the capacity battery the larger the charging system has to be to support the battery.
Click to expand...

My one word response was meant provoke thought regarding the widespread misinformation about electrickery. :mrgreen:
A large STORAGE battery puts no more load on a charging system than a small one. As mentioned above, the load of electrical devices is the consideration when sizing the charging system. I laughed as the crowd all gasped in horror as I hooked up the jumper cables from a diesel truck with (OMG!) 2 batteries to my liter bike with a weak battery and thumbed it to life. Nothing blown up, nothing burned up.
Battery size choice is a compromise of weight/size/cost vs expected STORAGE capacity needed to serve the intended purpose.
A YTX20 AGM will fit in a commando battery box and would give great results, weight notwithstanding.
The trend to upgrade Commando charging systems is an attempt to solve the "DAMMIT!! dead battery AGAIN!" issue, which, unless loaded with more accesories of significant current draw, (like old duffers wanting heated riding gear :oops: ) or, short trip/low RPM parade-like riding conditions, is a stab in the wrong direction.
Aside from being huge and heavy, a 80 AH automotive battery (Group size 94R here in US) strapped on the pillion position would work marvelously. :idea:
A modern, motorcycle size AGM is a good choice for the garden variety street going Commando.
 
In the end I opted for the three phase system by buying from Andover new rotor, stator and three phase Podtronics.
The Podtronics three phase does not have the capacitor built in.
I have to replace the original blue capacitor or can I remove finally it without problems?
Thank you.
Piero
 
pierodn said:
I have to replace the original blue capacitor or can I remove finally it without problems?
Click to expand...

You could have removed it at any time before now, as its purpose is to allow (kick)starting if the battery becomes discharged, or, for running the engine without a battery.
You will probably need to connect the two brown/blue wires together if you disconnect them from the capacitor.
 
The 3 phase is a good choice. You will be happy to be able to ride in heavy night traffic without a worry about charging. It puts out a good supply at low RPM.
 
pierodn said:
Hi Nathan,
There are not particulary reason i dont want to go to Led.
Let me know, please, what i have to buy and who supply this Led and i will try.
Thanks.
Piero
Click to expand...
First, I owe you an apology for the late response. Mille Scuse!

You need three things to convert the stock headlight to LED:

1) New reflector that will accept an H4-style bulb http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-OEM-part-He ... 59&vxp=mtr This is a nice unit, as it incorporates the running/pilot light. Do be aware that the "W" clips will need to be sprung a bit to hold the reflector securely into the headlight ring, as the reflector's flange is a bit thinner than stock.

2) Pigtail - this is what allows you to connect the stock harness to the three-prong bulb (H4 and its derivatives) I use one from a local parts supply house http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Catal ... 0334566833 but you should be able to cross-reference others if this one isn't available to you. I crimped male bullet connectors onto the pigtails so that they would plug directly into the stock harness.

3) LED bulb http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-Motorcycle- ... d6&vxp=mtr One of the main reasons I bought this bulb was the fact that it can be used with a positive earth system. I have been very happy with the performance of this unit. Also, see permanent-solution-dim-commando-headlight-t20361.html for a full story of the progression we went through a bit ago. It's a long thread, but there's lots of good info and insights contained therein.

As Gripper mentioned, you might also consider adding the micro relays to ensure full voltage is delivered to whatever type of headlamp assembly you ultimately go with. However, the LED, with its reduced current demands, isn't affected as much as a conventional incandescent bulb would be.

For future, let's move the headlight discussion part of this to permanent-solution-dim-commando-headlight-t20361.html so as to keep this thread on focus for the charging system.

Nathan
 
Hi.
The Podtronics is arrived.
The instructions say to fit the black wire to the negative wire from battery.
I think is better join this black wire to the white wire from the switch.
This because the white wire has power only after the switch on while the wire from battery (mine is NB) is aleays on power.
What do you think about.
Ciao
Piero
 
pierodn said:
Hi.
The Podtronics is arrived.
The instructions say to fit the black wire to the negative wire from battery.
I think is better join this black wire to the white wire from the switch.
This because the white wire has power only after the switch on while the wire from battery (mine is NB) is aleays on power.
What do you think about.
Ciao
Piero
Click to expand...
No switch, go directly to the battery.
 
pete.v said:
pierodn said:
Hi.
The Podtronics is arrived.
The instructions say to fit the black wire to the negative wire from battery.
I think is better join this black wire to the white wire from the switch.
This because the white wire has power only after the switch on while the wire from battery (mine is NB) is aleays on power.
What do you think about.
Ciao
Piero
Click to expand...
No switch, go directly to the battery.
Click to expand...

Well,
But let me know why is better.
Thanks.
Piero
 
pierodn said:
pete.v said:
pierodn said:
Hi.
The Podtronics is arrived.
The instructions say to fit the black wire to the negative wire from battery.
I think is better join this black wire to the white wire from the switch.
This because the white wire has power only after the switch on while the wire from battery (mine is NB) is aleays on power.
What do you think about.
Ciao
Piero
Click to expand...
No switch, go directly to the battery.
Click to expand...

Well,
But let me know why is better.
Thanks.
Piero
Click to expand...
Less chance for fault. Stator/regulator feeds the battery, battery feeds the switch, switch feed the bike.
Having a linier path makes for a cleaner and more reliable system. Loading the switch with too much stuff unnecessarily can be troublesome.
Keep it simple.
 
Hi Pete,
I mean.
But in this way, the Podtronics will always be fed!
Wouldn't it be better to feed the Podtronics only when the bike is starting?
Ciao
Piero
 
pierodn said:
Hi.
The Podtronics is arrived.
The instructions say to fit the black wire to the negative wire from battery.
I think is better join this black wire to the white wire from the switch.
This because the white wire has power only after the switch on while the wire from battery (mine is NB) is aleays on power.
What do you think about.
Ciao
Piero
Click to expand...

The reason you don't want to wire the Podtronics unit the way you suggest is because once the engine is started and running, your alternator is putting out electrical power to the ignition system. The engine will continue to run even though your ignition switch is turned off.

If you connect your black wire directly to the battery, that wire should have it's own fuse near the battery. Otherwise the black wire would not be circuit protected. I would personally splice the black wire into the brown/blue wire so that you wouldn't need to add this extra fuse.

Peter Joe
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top