Update the battery charging system (2015)

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pierodn

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Hi All,
I ride with a 1971 Norton Commando 750 that mounts a new Pazon Sure Fire electronic ignition.
The bike fits all the original electrical parts, wiring, two Lucas 6V coils, Diode Zener, Rectifier, alternator, rotor, capacitor, etc.
I would like to update the charging system changing capacitor, diode zener and rectifier  in one, and replace the old alternator with a better one for have much more light in the night.
I'd like to receive your advices in order the best update, if one or three phases, and which parts to mount and the suppliers.
Thank you.
Piero
 
For years I ran my ES2 with a bog standard Lucas 120 watt alternator but employed a Wipac 'Quadoptic' light unit with (from memory) a 65 /55 watt quartz halogen main H4 easily replaceable bulb. Most friends in the early hours after leaving pubs etc followed me and my nice bright headlamp beam. One friend who ran a business servicing Land Rovers who I put on to these Wipac units made part of his profits changing customers ancient old Lucas headlamps (of the time) to Wipac quadoptics and sold a great many of them.....If memory is correct they came as a set of two units. Go to Google and look up 'Wipac quadoptic headlight 7 inch' . One advantage of them was that you could also fit a halogen pilot bulb. I note they are available as single units at a reasonable price - for these days that is..some of us can remember when a new Renold rear chain cost £2 -17 - 6 1/2 !!!!!!!!! farthings having just been removed from UK currency........just like half pennies went a few years later as successive British so called governments destroyed the economy of the country greatly helped of course by the CBI or as I(correctly?) refer to the organisation, the Chamber of British Incompetence.
As for the control system I was buying for myself and friends solid state control boxes that did every thing from the USA 40 odd years ago...... which worked perfectly.
 
pierodn said:
Hi All,
I ride with a 1971 Norton Commando 750 that mounts a new Pazon Sure Fire electronic ignition.
The bike fits all the original electrical parts, wiring, two Lucas 6V coils, Diode Zener, Rectifier, alternator, rotor, capacitor, etc.
I would like to update the charging system changing capacitor, diode zener and rectifier  in one, and replace the old alternator with a better one for have much more light in the night.
I'd like to receive your advices in order the best update, if one or three phases, and which parts to mount and the suppliers.
Thank you.
Piero
Click to expand...

P
start with Podtronics Single Phase POD-1p-MAX 12 volt 200 watt Rectifier-Regulator. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PODTRONICS-20 ... 1659530102
H-4 high low beam 60/55 watt headlamp.
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wirin ... _kits.html Get the high beam low beam relay kit.
http://www.bulbsthatlast4ever.com/products/679-si.html this takes the load off the alternator and gives good tail light/brake illumination
with the 4 above items you may not need to change the stock Rotor/stator in your primary. If your alternator stator is in good order. With a volt meter on a/c measure the two leads coming out of the primary which is from the stator, You should be seeing 20 volts A/C at 1750 RPM of engine speed. Give us this voltage on your 1971 Commando.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN
 
I suggest you get one of these regulators http://www.ebay.com/itm/SH775-Regulator ... 3aa36b4e39 it is more expensive, but it is gentler on the alternator and puts less drag on the engine. I will show why it is better with a reply to my post on regulators here voltage-regulators-t22113.html

If you do your own wiring, and upgrade all the lights to LEDs, a standard 120 watt alternator is quite enough for all your needs. You can even do some spiffy stuff with LEDs, see diy-led-lights-cheap-t21177.html

Jean
 
CanukNortonNut said:
pierodn said:
Hi All,
I ride with a 1971 Norton Commando 750 that mounts a new Pazon Sure Fire electronic ignition.
The bike fits all the original electrical parts, wiring, two Lucas 6V coils, Diode Zener, Rectifier, alternator, rotor, capacitor, etc.
I would like to update the charging system changing capacitor, diode zener and rectifier  in one, and replace the old alternator with a better one for have much more light in the night.
I'd like to receive your advices in order the best update, if one or three phases, and which parts to mount and the suppliers.
Thank you.
Piero
Click to expand...

P
start with Podtronics Single Phase POD-1p-MAX 12 volt 200 watt Rectifier-Regulator. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PODTRONICS-20 ... 1659530102
H-4 high low beam 60/55 watt headlamp.
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wirin ... _kits.html Get the high beam low beam relay kit.
http://www.bulbsthatlast4ever.com/products/679-si.html this takes the load off the alternator and gives good tail light/brake illumination
with the 4 above items you may not need to change the stock Rotor/stator in your primary. If your alternator stator is in good order. With a volt meter on a/c measure the two leads coming out of the primary which is from the stator, You should be seeing 20 volts A/C at 1750 RPM of engine speed. Give us this voltage on your 1971 Commando.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN
Click to expand...

Hi and thank you.
Please:
1.has the Podtronics you says the capacitor built in?
2 with h4 i need to change the stock bulbs?
Ciao
Piero
 
pierodn said:
CanukNortonNut said:
pierodn said:
Hi All,
I ride with a 1971 Norton Commando 750 that mounts a new Pazon Sure Fire electronic ignition.
The bike fits all the original electrical parts, wiring, two Lucas 6V coils, Diode Zener, Rectifier, alternator, rotor, capacitor, etc.
I would like to update the charging system changing capacitor, diode zener and rectifier  in one, and replace the old alternator with a better one for have much more light in the night.
I'd like to receive your advices in order the best update, if one or three phases, and which parts to mount and the suppliers.
Thank you.
Piero
Click to expand...

P
start with Podtronics Single Phase POD-1p-MAX 12 volt 200 watt Rectifier-Regulator. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PODTRONICS-20 ... 1659530102
H-4 high low beam 60/55 watt headlamp.
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wirin ... _kits.html Get the high beam low beam relay kit.
http://www.bulbsthatlast4ever.com/products/679-si.html this takes the load off the alternator and gives good tail light/brake illumination
with the 4 above items you may not need to change the stock Rotor/stator in your primary. If your alternator stator is in good order. With a volt meter on a/c measure the two leads coming out of the primary which is from the stator, You should be seeing 20 volts A/C at 1750 RPM of engine speed. Give us this voltage on your 1971 Commando.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN
Click to expand...

Hi and thank you.
Please:
1.has the Podtronics you says the capacitor built in?
2 with h4 i need to change the stock bulbs?
Ciao
Piero
Click to expand...

"H4" refers to the bulb configuration, specific to the reflector/lens assembly (housing")
H4 bulbs are available in many watt ratings, from 40 on up to 100 watt. I run a 45/45w H4.
 
swooshdave said:
Especially upgrade the headlight to an LED bulb. It'll give you're charging system a much needed rest.
Click to expand...

That is only true if the regulator does not shunt the excess and turn it into heat. The Podtronic and others operating the same way will only short the alternator as a means to regulate the output so any load taken off by replacing an incandescent bulb for a LED will be turned into heat at the regulator. The regulator I proposed as an alternative does not work the same way, it OPENS when the voltage is OK at the battery, it is however more expensive, but money well spent IMOHO.

Jean
 
The most important thing to change is the rotor. Whatever you do change that. The old ones nearly always have weak magnets. Often you will get about a lot more power by putting in a new rotor. Also the old ones sometimes explode. That will leave you stranded by the side of the road and damage other parts. I will not use the old ones any more. I have two replacement ones from Wassel. They seem to be OK.
 
Hi.
I have to change the stator, it does not work.
What tipe i have to buy, the stock one or a high power 200 W 16A?.
Thank you.
Piero
 
pierodn said:
Hi.
I have to change the lternator, it does not work.
What tipe i have to buy, the stock one or a high power 200 W 16A?.
Thank you.
Piero
Click to expand...

Stock is fine with stock equipment. If you fit LEDs, no need for higher watts.

Jean
 
Hi,
I dont like to use led light.
I would like to use a bulb with more strong light than stock.
I have to replace the stator, it oesnt work.
I thought to buy one wassell single phase 16 A with a podtronics single phase with capacitor built in.
But if i use the stock system with diod zener, rectifier and capacitor, what is the best stator i have to buy?
What do you think about?
Thanks.
Piero
 
pierodn said:
I dont like to use led light.
Click to expand...
Any particular reason why you don't want to go the LED route? An LED has been working very well on my bike for the last year, and it's noticably brighter than the original setup. Pretty much anything you use will be better than the stock lamp. permanent-solution-dim-commando-headlight-t20361-45.html


pierodn said:
I would like to use a bulb with more strong light than stock.
Click to expand...
Another option is to drop a Halogen bulb into the stock reflector. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lucas-Type-Halo ... c6&vxp=mtr

There's a lot of good information in this thread about charging systems. I believe most everything you're interested in doing has been covered here.
uprated-charging-system-t19016.html?hilit=charging%20system


pierodn said:
I have to replace the stator, it doesn't work.
I thought to buy one wassell single phase 16 A with a podtronics single phase with capacitor built in.
But if i use the stock system with diode zener, rectifier and capacitor, what is the best stator i have to buy?
Click to expand...
Since the LED in my bike draws less current than the H4-style of bulb (20/30W versus 55/60W), I was able to stick with the stock stator. The only real disadvantage to the high-output stator is its inability to charge at low rpms. This is explained in greater detail at uprated-charging-system-t19016-45.html starting about half-way down the page. If you want greater output (for more lights and/or heated riding suit), then you'll need to upgrade to the three-phase charging system. This has the added advantage of being able to charge the battery at an idle.

Nathan
 
Nater_Potater said:
pierodn said:
I dont like to use led light.
Click to expand...
Any particular reason why you don't want to go the LED route? An LED has been working very well on my bike for the last year, and it's noticably brighter than the original setup. Pretty much anything you use will be better than the stock lamp. permanent-solution-dim-commando-headlight-t20361-45.html


pierodn said:
I would like to use a bulb with more strong light than stock.
Click to expand...
Another option is to drop a Halogen bulb into the stock reflector. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lucas-Type-Halo ... c6&vxp=mtr

There's a lot of good information in this thread about charging systems. I believe most everything you're interested in doing has been covered here.
uprated-charging-system-t19016.html?hilit=charging%20system


pierodn said:
I have to replace the stator, it doesn't work.
I thought to buy one wassell single phase 16 A with a podtronics single phase with capacitor built in.
But if i use the stock system with diode zener, rectifier and capacitor, what is the best stator i have to buy?
Click to expand...
Since the LED in my bike draws less current than the H4-style of bulb (20/30W versus 55/60W), I was able to stick with the stock stator. The only real disadvantage to the high-output stator is its inability to charge at low rpms. This is explained in greater detail at uprated-charging-system-t19016-45.html starting about half-way down the page. If you want greater output (for more lights and/or heated riding suit), then you'll need to upgrade to the three-phase charging system. This has the added advantage of being able to charge the battery at an idle.

Nathan
Click to expand...

Hi Nathan,
There are not particulary reason i dont want to go to Led.
Let me know, please, what i have to buy and who supply this Led and i will try.
Thanks.
Piero
 
It seems everyone upgrades alternator output and wants a small battery. I run the reverse thinking. I have all standard charging with the trusty Zener Diode for regulation. My only change is to run the biggest battery I can get in the slot on my 71 Commando. I think it is a YF14. It just goes into the space with a little effort. Using a larger capacity battery gives you reserve amperage capacity when it is needed. You can run much longer if you lose your charging system, you have greater reserve in night time slow running, and more reserve left after the battery drains a bit for whatever reason. In my opinion the standard system works quite well. Just put a better battery in there and save your money.
 
aceaceca said:
It seems everyone upgrades alternator output and wants a small battery. I run the reverse thinking. I have all standard charging with the trusty Zener Diode for regulation. My only change is to run the biggest battery I can get in the slot on my 71 Commando. I think it is a YF14. It just goes into the space with a little effort. Using a larger capacity battery gives you reserve amperage capacity when it is needed. You can run much longer if you lose your charging system, you have greater reserve in night time slow running, and more reserve left after the battery drains a bit for whatever reason. In my opinion the standard system works quite well. Just put a better battery in there and save your money.
Click to expand...

Amen.

'Course... the "racing mindset" of shaving ounces on a street bike fuels the tiny battery infatuation. :mrgreen:
 
Whatever you end up doing with the charging system, it's well worth fitting a couple of micro relays in the headlight circuit to ensure you get full voltage at the headlight bulb. When the original system routes the volts through ignition switch, light switch, dip switch and 4 or 5 connectors you will loose nearly a volt at the headlight bulb. That's a dim headlight in real terms.
 
gripper said:
Whatever you end up doing with the charging system, it's well worth fitting a couple of micro relays in the headlight circuit to ensure you get full voltage at the headlight bulb. When the original system routes the volts through ignition switch, light switch, dip switch and 4 or 5 connectors you will loose nearly a volt at the headlight bulb. That's a dim headlight in real terms.
Click to expand...


100% fact. :idea: :mrgreen:
 
Bigger battery does not always mean more amps - it will get to a point where the charging system will not be able to support it fully, and thus never really getting a good charge will result in a failed battery. 14Ahr should be fine though. Good connections, minimum number of connections and a good earth and you should have plenty of amps in your system and enough to keep the battery happy.
 
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