Trispark Reliability & Trispark v Pazon Sure Fire

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I looked at a dead one in the garage just now. No number or identifying marks I see. The replacement sent has had no problems although the dead one lasted less than 1000 miles.
 
Here my experiences with TriSpark and conclusion of that: Never again the electronics inside Motor. Hall-Sensor inside Motor, electronics outside motor.
My Trispark in new Version ( means with test button and black surface) has died after 2000 km and 2,5 Years in use! Failure was: Motor lost immediately power, fired up again, and runs for 10 km before quit his job. I was assuming an issue by the carb. I Check the plugs and there was a spark. So clear the carb has a problem. Bike starts again and lost again after some km immediately the power. But since this time no life sign by the TriSpark. checked every single cable, checked every single part. It is def. the TriSpark ignition. Regards Lorenz
 
Lorenz said:
Here my experiences with TriSpark and conclusion of that: Never again the electronics inside Motor. Hall-Sensor inside Motor, electronics outside motor.
Click to expand...

I have to withdraw my blame against the Trispark. :eek:
I received a new one by warranty but I'd installed meanwhile a Boyer Electronic Box. The red one.
This was INMHO a big mistake. The Norton began to kick-back and bits me from time to time so hard that I've feared for every kick.
I've checked Undervoltage, the ignition, the sparks and everything I found in the forum; but at last, she was a beast at that time.
After I go back to Trispark the start behavior was friendly.
So: Again Electronic inside by TriSpark ;) and I'm happy
Lorenz
 
Thanks for posting Lorenz, however disregarding the Boyer issue, the original TriSpark had failed ?

Cheers,

cliffa.
 
Lorenz said:
I have to withdraw my blame against the Trispark. :eek:
I received a new one by warranty but I'd installed meanwhile a Boyer Electronic Box. The red one.
This was INMHO a big mistake. The Norton began to kick-back and bits me from time to time so hard that I've feared for every kick.
I've checked Undervoltage, the ignition, the sparks and everything I found in the forum; but at last, she was a beast at that time.
After I go back to Trispark the start behavior was friendly.
So: Again Electronic inside by TriSpark ;) and I'm happy
Lorenz
Click to expand...
Had the exact same problem my early red box boyer coil and all. Boyer attempted to resolve the problem but failed, it's still in its box. A TriSpark replaced it and so far it has been perfect. (I hope I haven't upset the EI gods). With a little bit more time to reflect on the boyer I've the feeling the tickover smoothing advance spike was causing the kick back. Perhaps i should have reduced the timing until the kick back stopped and if the top end revs/power weren't effected I'd have saved myself a few quid.
Dave
 
cash said:
Had the exact same problem my early red box boyer coil and all. Boyer attempted to resolve the problem but failed, it's still in its box. A TriSpark replaced it and so far it has been perfect. (I hope I haven't upset the EI gods). With a little bit more time to reflect on the boyer I've the feeling the tickover smoothing advance spike was causing the kick back. Perhaps i should have reduced the timing until the kick back stopped and if the top end revs/power weren't effected I'd have saved myself a few quid.
Dave
Click to expand...
How much do you think it'd affect the top end if you backed the timing off to stop it kicking back?
Have you tried this before?
Cheers
 
cliffa said:
Thanks for posting Lorenz, however disregarding the Boyer issue, the original TriSpark had failed ?

Cheers,

cliffa.
Click to expand...
Hi Cliffa.
Yes. TriSpark failed and my dealer replaced the faulty one. I Don't know what happen, but the Dealer replaced without any discussion. Great service.
Since this time... NO Kick Back by TriSpark, I've no fear anymore to start my bike!
Before TriSpark there was the Black Boyer assembled. This ignition gave me kick back from time to time, but the red one was a NIGHTMARE!
Regards Lorenz
 
cash said:
Had the exact same problem my early red box boyer coil and all. Boyer attempted to resolve the problem but failed, it's still in its box. A TriSpark replaced it and so far it has been perfect. (I hope I haven't upset the EI gods). With a little bit more time to reflect on the boyer I've the feeling the tickover smoothing advance spike was causing the kick back. Perhaps i should have reduced the timing until the kick back stopped and if the top end revs/power weren't effected I'd have saved myself a few quid.
Dave
Click to expand...
Hello Dave, I have also checked the timing and moved it step by step, checked by ignition light gun, checked battery for Undervoltage, checked Sparks, have done this, and that!
And I've gathered the information here in the forum where many users are absolutely happy by the "Red Boxed Spark Maker"
But I was still suffering under kick backs. Then I've stopped my investigation and put in the TriSpark. First setup was perfect, no issue since this time.


Regards Lorenz
 
Fast Eddie said:
I’m on my 5th Tri Spark (meaning 5 different bikes, not replacements!) and, so far at least, I’ve not had a single issue.

I’m no electrical genius, so it’s not cos I’m doing anything clever.

Success / failure seems very random indeed to me.
Click to expand...
Hi Eddie,I was wondering what coil are you using with the Tri Spark systems.In the middle of building a racing outfit,and ignition system is next on the list.
 
tonybsa said:
Hi Eddie,I was wondering what coil are you using with the Tri Spark systems.In the middle of building a racing outfit,and ignition system is next on the list.
Click to expand...

A dual outlet coil sold by cNw on the Commando. Tri Spark Luca style coils on a couple of Triumphs.
 
The remote box may not be necessary but for me it is the way to go. Why make not eliminate possible issues right off?
 
I've had four different ignitions on my Norton since I got it on the road back in around 2012. First was the Lucas Rita. This was my favorite and I think it made the most power but cannot prove it. On a long trip down from Kidron Ohio to Asheville NC I rode for two days in the rain. My charging system kept registering over voltage and it eventually took out the Rita. The regulator (Podtronics) was letting the voltage go too high. One guy told me it was probably Radio Frequency from my spark plug wires in the rain!! At Barber that year I had to buy a Boyer to get home. I never liked how the engine ran on the Boyer and when a friend and I strobed the engine the timing was going all over the place. Then I replaced two things at once: I went to a three phase charging system and put in a Pazon ignition. No problems since then and a dyno tested 42 rear wheel hp.

Here is where it gets interesting. I sent the Boyer to Walridge in Canada for testing. He has a test bench set up to test Boyers because of all the return claims he gets up there. It came back tested good. Boyers are sensitive to voltage and that Podtronics regulator was not holding constant voltage ever since my episode with the rain and the burning out of the Lucas Rita. My new three phase regulator is from a Honda Sabre and holds the voltage at exactly 14.1v no mater what the RPM or load is. So, the Pazon has never seen a variable voltage situation on the bike and I'm sure that the Boyer would work satisfactorily if I put it back on.

With the new higher capacity charging system I am tempted to put a Lucas Rita back on the bike.

The fourth ignition was the Power Arc and it has a story all it's own unrelated to the other three. I ruined it by forgetting to put resistor plugs in the bike while I had copper core wires and non resistor spark plug caps.
 
This will barely be on topic, since I have zero experience with TriSpark or Pazon:

I was reading this post yesterday before it popped back up with current discussion. I was considering replacing my old Boyer MkIII with a TriSpark, and this thread came up on a google search.

I thought the Boyer was going out. Turned out to be one of my plugs was too sooty to fire in the combustion chamber. If one plug goes, the system acts like running out of fuel. I went from velocity stacks to filters and was running too rich. Changed plugs after rewiring everything related to the ignition and cleaning out my carburetors. A failed spark plug was the last thing that came to mind. Running great again, and a little stronger in the midrange. I'm using MSD 3742 iridium core resistor plugs. The plugs happen to be shorty 5/8th wrench plugs one step hotter than the middle of the MSD plug heat scale. Not recommending them, just saying that's what I had lying around with the right thread and reach. The MSD 3734 would be the standard 13/16th wrench plug with the right thread and reach. One step hotter than the NGK BP7ES I believe. I won't be using NGK BP7ES non-resistor plugs anymore. And I won't be getting a TriSpark, even though it would make for a cleaner less cluttered installation.

Good to know the Red box Boyer doesn't solve the kick back issue.

Does the Micro Digital version of the Boyer also kick back if timing is set around 29 degrees all in?

BTW only time my Boyer MkIII kicks back is when I don't kick it hard enough to light it off on a cold start. And "yes" I always get nervous and sweat a little on cold starts. It doesn't kick back that hard, but always bugs the heck out of me when it does. Warm starts are a piece of cake. Lights right up with barely any kick.

One other note is that my motor was much easier to start cold with 12V standard coils than it is with the epoxy filled mini double coil. I never have 12V at the battery on cold starts with my little 1.3amp 12V AGM battery. It is usually around 11.7V. Takes a bunch of kicking (5 strokes when cold) with the Boyer MkIII and Mikuni carburetors without the nice enrichment tickler the Amals have.
 
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motorson said:
I've had four different ignitions on my Norton since I got it on the road back in around 2012. First was the Lucas Rita. This was my favorite and I think it made the most power but cannot prove it. On a long trip down from Kidron Ohio to Asheville NC I rode for two days in the rain. My charging system kept registering over voltage and it eventually took out the Rita. The regulator (Podtronics) was letting the voltage go too high. One guy told me it was probably Radio Frequency from my spark plug wires in the rain!! At Barber that year I had to buy a Boyer to get home. I never liked how the engine ran on the Boyer and when a friend and I strobed the engine the timing was going all over the place. Then I replaced two things at once: I went to a three phase charging system and put in a Pazon ignition. No problems since then and a dyno tested 42 rear wheel hp.

Here is where it gets interesting. I sent the Boyer to Walridge in Canada for testing. He has a test bench set up to test Boyers because of all the return claims he gets up there. It came back tested good. Boyers are sensitive to voltage and that Podtronics regulator was not holding constant voltage ever since my episode with the rain and the burning out of the Lucas Rita. My new three phase regulator is from a Honda Sabre and holds the voltage at exactly 14.1v no mater what the RPM or load is. So, the Pazon has never seen a variable voltage situation on the bike and I'm sure that the Boyer would work satisfactorily if I put it back on.

With the new higher capacity charging system I am tempted to put a Lucas Rita back on the bike.

The fourth ignition was the Power Arc and it has a story all it's own unrelated to the other three. I ruined it by forgetting to put resistor plugs in the bike while I had copper core wires and non resistor spark plug caps.
Click to expand...

What engine are you running? 750, 850, Combat??
 
Schwany said:
This will barely be on topic, since I have zero experience with TriSpark or Pazon:

I was reading this post yesterday before it popped back up with current discussion. I was considering replacing my old Boyer MkIII with a TriSpark, and this thread came up on a google search.

I thought the Boyer was going out. Turned out to be one of my plugs was too sooty to fire in the combustion chamber. If one plug goes, the system acts like running out of fuel. I went from velocity stacks to filters and was running too rich. Changed plugs after rewiring everything related to the ignition and cleaning out my carburetors. A failed spark plug was the last thing that came to mind. Running great again, and a little stronger in the midrange. I'm using MSD 3742 iridium core resistor plugs. The plugs happen to be shorty 5/8th wrench plugs one step hotter than the middle of the MSD plug heat scale. Not recommending them, just saying that's what I had lying around with the right thread and reach. The MSD 3734 would be the standard 13/16th wrench plug with the right thread and reach. One step hotter than the NGK BP7ES I believe. I won't be using NGK BP7ES non-resistor plugs anymore. And I won't be getting a TriSpark, even though it would make for a cleaner less cluttered installation.

Good to know the Red box Boyer doesn't solve the kick back issue.

Does the Micro Digital version of the Boyer also kick back if timing is set around 29 degrees all in?

BTW only time my Boyer MkIII kicks back is when I don't kick it hard enough to light it off on a cold start. And "yes" I always get nervous and sweat a little on cold starts. It doesn't kick back that hard, but always bugs the heck out of me when it does. Warm starts are a piece of cake. Lights right up with barely any kick.

One other note is that my motor was much easier to start cold with 12V standard coils than it is with the epoxy filled mini double coil. I never have 12V at the battery on cold starts with my little 1.3amp 12V AGM battery. It is usually around 11.7V. Takes a bunch of kicking (5 strokes when cold) with the Boyer MkIII and Mikuni carburetors without the nice enrichment tickler the Amals have.
Click to expand...


Are you sure you are running 12v. coils? Standard coils are 6v, wired in series for the Boyer.
 
MichaelB said:
What engine are you running? 750, 850, Combat??
Click to expand...
My engine is a modified Combat. I'm still running the combat head, a .125 copper head gasket, a Megacycle 312a cam advanced 5 degrees. The measured and calculated compression ratio is 8.9 to one. The max HP of 42 came in at 5500 rpm.
 
MichaelB said:
Are you sure you are running 12v. coils? Standard coils are 6v, wired in series for the Boyer.
Click to expand...
There's very little I would consider standard about my Norton P11. It's a long way from being a restoration. More like a road racer with weak brakes. he he

Only reason I get in the Commando forum and babble is because I have 2S cam in my P11 with a Commando timing cover. The motor is essentially a modified Atlas turned Combat with a P11 serial number on the case. So my motor does share a few parts with a Commando, but not much of anything else.

Yes, the coils are 17M12 12V coils. They work fine wired in series with the Boyer MkIII, but I always considered them bulky and in the way for me personally, so I removed them. I put 6900 miles on the bike configured with the Boyer and 12V coils before I took them off, and put the 12V mini e-coil on. I stopped riding it back in the 90's and just pulled it out a couple of months ago, and decided to make some small changes.

So, anyone know if the Boyer Micro Digital kicks back in real use, and if the ignition really can start a motor with lower voltage than 12V as Boyer states?
 
tonybsa said:
Is there anywhere in the UK,I can get the CNW coil,I dont fancy paying £170 for a coil!
Click to expand...
You can buy small dual e-coils with the correct resistance to work with Boyer, TriSpark, Pazon, or a you name it Norton EI setup for $50US, if you look around on ebay. 4K ohms of resistance works fine. The coil CNW sells is a nice looking part, but I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a coil either. Boyer and others sell the same coil I'm using. I'm not in the UK obviously, so can't help with a source there.
 
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