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Trispark Reliability & Trispark v Pazon Sure Fire

Discussion in 'Norton Commando Motorcycles (Classic)' started by Dellis, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. Dellis

    Dellis VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    having read about reliability issues with the Trispark they all seem to be fairly aged, are the more recent systems reliable or have the reliability issues remained?

    I’m thinking of either fitting a Pazon sure fire or a Trispark so I’m interested in the opinions of any who have actually tried both systems. I’ve read loads of threads with opinions from users of both systems but I’m only interested in the reliability of the current Trispark and thoughts of those who have tried both systems.

    Thanks
    Dave
     
  2. baz

    baz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Have you thought about using an elektronik saches ignition system? Exactly the same spec as trispark but without the problems
     
  3. L.A.B.

    L.A.B. Moderator VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004

    I replaced a reasonably early Tri-Spark with a Pazon Sure-Fire last year, not because of any problem with the Tri-Spark only that I didn't trust it any longer due to the number of failures of these early units.

    As far as actual ignition performance is concerned I didn't notice any difference between the two.
     
  4. ashman

    ashman

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    And what about the old Boyar lot of folks have complained about kick back but in over 35 years of running one on my Norton it only kicked back two time once when first setting it up and another time when the bike had a big belly of fuel, I replaced it for the Joe Hunt maggie and as far as I know the old Boyar is still going, my mate put it in his Norton but its been sold off, so I had 35 years of trouble free from my Boyar can't get much better than that for reliablity.
    But I like my JH even better, don't have to worry about batteries letting me down.

    Ashley
     
  5. Onder

    Onder

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    This afternoon I lit off my Interceptor with a Sure Fire. I was amazed that it kicked back. Only happened once. But then both my other Interceptor and my Commando have Pazon Altairs which, if they do , dont do it so violently. Maybe this is just my take. Performance wise I see no difference between
    the budget EI and the pricey one. Both have been very reliable.
     
  6. Dellis

    Dellis VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    Thanks for the prompt replies. As it happens I have a Pazon on the shelf in my workshop and a Boyer fitted. The Boyer reliably kicks back and it’s stating to irritate! The question was really about how much better the TriSpark was but reading your responses I’ll whack the Pazon on and give it a go.

    Dave
     
  7. norton73

    norton73

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    I have been running the same Boyer in my '73 since 1990 or so. The only times it has kicked back was when the battery was low. I was thinking I should replace it last year when I stumbled upon a replacement rotor from Decent Cycles. I checked the magnetic strength in my old rotor, and you couldn't pick it up by the magnets with a screwdriver. I ordered up and the replacement rotor seems to have revitalized my ignition.

    http://decentcycles.com/the-decent-store Scroll down for the rotor.

    My wife's '75 was bought with a Pazon installed. The PO was selling because the bike would quit running about 60-75 miles into a ride and he had to call his wife to rescue him. It would have no spark at the time, but when he got home it would fire right up. He repeated this several times and got frustrated with the bike.

    Long story, but after much work on the bike, we trailered it to the National in NC and my wife rode it for the first time on a ride over to Brevard. About 60 miles into the ride, it died. She said it popped and then quit, just like a broken wire on a Boyer. A close investigation revealed the tiny little screws in the plastic junction box on the plate was just a little loose. Fortunately, I had a tiny screw driver for glasses with me and could tighten up the screws. She's ridden it a couple thousand miles since with no issues. That's been my only experience with a Pazon.
     
  8. lazyeye6

    lazyeye6 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    First Tri-Spark I had failed. The heat issue. It was replaced and has been faultless since. Bought another Tri/Spark for a Mark III I had and it performed faultlessly. I believe they modified their circuitry to resolve the heat problem. I’ve had a Pazon Sure Fire on another bike for 5 years. It always starts 1 or Two kicks. It. Has kicked back on me a couple of times. Not fun.
    I believe you have a Mark III? This electric start can not tolerate kick backs with a ruined sprag gear and several hundred dollars in parts resulting. The TriSpark and , I believe, the Pazon Altair have built in programming to prevent kick backs and are somewhat similar in price. If it was my Mark III, I wouldn’t install a Pazon Sure Fire.
     
  9. 1up3down

    1up3down

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    I had heat related failures on my first Trispark, replaced by CNW

    I have had no issues, no problems with my replacement Trispark fitted in 2013

    I ran a Boyer for over 35 years, kicking back is caused by the ignition being too far
    advanced which can happen without one knowing it if the plate rotates loose screws.
     
  10. ashman

    ashman

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    If its kicking back then just retard it ever so slightly it only takes a little bit of a movement to retard it to stop it from kicking back, in all my years of owning my Norton (over 43 years now) I have never used a timing light I static time it and advance it till I get a bit of kick back then retard it just enough to stop kick back, this way has worked for me static timing is so close and just a minor adjustmemt is needed, I do the same when setting up my JH maggie, slack in your cam chain will change your timing settings as well.
    Set and forget doesn't always work and over time minor adjustmemts are needed to your timing even with EIs.

    Ashley
     
  11. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    I’m on my 5th Tri Spark (meaning 5 different bikes, not replacements!) and, so far at least, I’ve not had a single issue.

    I’m no electrical genius, so it’s not cos I’m doing anything clever.

    Success / failure seems very random indeed to me.
     
  12. Madnorton

    Madnorton VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Not lot between them, prefer the Tri Spark as it will not back fire. Have had mine for a few years and ran it down to Austria last year and one morning the heat was 39 C, and ran for 4 hours just stopping for fuel - no issues. Even my old Boyer was over 21 years old until if failed, I re-soldered the broken wire and it still worked, so even with a Boyer set up properly it is not really an issue, it is power hungry though.
     
  13. marshg246

    marshg246 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    I started selling Tri-Spark in 2017 so no personal knowledge of old ones. I've sold over 100. There have been two failures. One was a BSA Rocket 3 which had one cylinder dead on install and one on a Triumph Trident that Tri-Spark did find to have an electronics fault. Both were replaced by me under warranty and both are happily using them. I've never had a twin or single fail using Tri-Spark. I've had a couple when the owner thought it failed, but I found the actual cause of their problem and fixed it.

    People talk about how long their systems work. The RITA in my rider was installed in 1976. I replaced it last year with Tri-Spark. There was nothing wrong with the RITA but it was really not much more than electronic points - the Tri-Spark starts much better and idles.
     
    cash likes this.
  14. 1up3down

    1up3down

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    the Trispark will also kick back if the ignition is advanced too much
     
  15. Fanfan26

    Fanfan26

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2012
    I will mount this on my commando,500 kms only,but the manufacturing is quality (made in Germany),easy to mount,the box is outside,220 euros in France.Wait and see……………….

    There are too many problems with the Boyer for a very long time, now also Trisparx (component that does not support heat),Maybe not with those of the last 2 years,but despite everything with some regulators, Kenny is looking for the problem,It also now has a version with the outside box like Pazon
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  16. MexicoMike

    MexicoMike

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    11 years on my Trispark in Mexico with no trouble at all. :)
     
  17. Dellis

    Dellis VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    I’ve been a bit busy over the last couple of weeks away in France and Belgium on my KTM so only got round to fitting the Pazon yesterday. Fitting didn’t take long and the static timing was about two degrees over advanced when I strobed it so not a million miles off but enough.

    The results; the bike is MUCH easier to start, a lightish prod is all it takes and so far first kick every time from cold, Luke warm and fully warmed up. With the Boyer it was a good starter but you had to push past TDC and give it a healthy kick where the Pazon, so far, has been first kick without the need to push past TDC. I’ve had to re-set the idle as it was ticking over too slowly with the Pazon fitted but after the adjustments idle is certainly Mose stable now. The other thing I noticed when strobing is that it’s now easier to hold a constant engine speed where the Boyer under the same conditions wanted to hunt rather than hold the same rpm, this wasn’t apparent when riding the bike so I’d never considered it an issue.

    Oh and I strobed the Boyer a couple of weeks ago so I know the improvement isn’t due to the poor timing of the Boyer.

    My conclusion is the Pazon is an improvement over the Boyer and as I had it on the shelf was a free upgrade.

    All is good :)

    Dave
     
    baz likes this.
  18. Jdub

    Jdub

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2018
    Can anyone tell me how you would identify an early, problematic Trispark vs. what appears to be the later, better ones? A serial number or otherwise, maybe a change to the appearance?

    Thank you!
     
  19. acadian

    acadian VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Pretty sure this is old
    [​IMG]

    And this is new
    [​IMG]
     
  20. lazyeye6

    lazyeye6 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Well......I had one of the "new" shown above which failed. It was
    replaced by a newer "new" one which has been working fine.
    YMMV.
     

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