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Trident ~ true phoenix

Discussion in 'Triumph (Classic)' started by Stuart SS, Sep 6, 2009.

  1. Govig

    Govig

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Those near on 40 year old cases came up so well because Mrs Govig is very good with the wet and dry. Starts with 400 or 360 then 600 to 800 before handing to me to polish. The non polished castings have been blasted with very fine grit and then ultrasonically cleaned to make sure no grit is lurking anywhere where it can do damage.

    Just to show we don't just polish but get technical as well, he is a pic showing setting of the valve timing. If you've got a T150/160 motor in bits, remember that the timing dots on the pinions are an initial set up only and can be varied by 1/3 tooth increments either way to get them spot on. Unfortunately many bikes were assembled like this in the 70s and have never been checked and it's probably the reason some triples really go and others just go. I had to advance both the exhaust and inlet cams to get the required valve lift at tdc.

    [​IMG]

    Thanks for you kind works about the workshop. It's conveniently situated a few minutes walk from the TT course.
     
  2. Stuart SS

    Stuart SS

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Govig

    A mate of mine is a BIG Triples fan and is right into them ~ He is a keen advocate on tweaking the timing and cams.

    ( He has built a Rob North Trident and is planning taking it too the IOM TT this coming year. )

    Additionally we have an Ozzi triplers email group which includes a retired engineer who REALLY knows his stuff and when I find the right head he is going to work it over for me~ I am assured his work is superb..

    I actually gas flowed and polished my current head myself ~ and on the face of it, it is far improved on the original ~ plus I polished the rockers ~ ( I woud recommend just buying them on an excahnge basis form workshops such as Norman Hyde in UK as it is a very laborious job ~ :lol:

    But when I first saw your shot of the timing wheel I thought for an instant that it was the same shot I took when I set mine up way back when ~

    I think I got mine pretty well spot on in fact ~

    As for polishing; the best example was my Yamaha front end / forks which were originally black powder coated and I did the same. Started with course Dremel hand tool bits and worked back to 1200 wet and dry and finally metal polish .

    I am actually still sorting mine with carbs and jets etc ~

    ( I am running a set of T160 carbs with #4 cutaways as I reside at 600 m above sea level and in the early stages found these ran much better than the T150 set~ )

    You might be interested to know my frame came (FOC) from Bordeaux in France !!! :shock:

    What ignition system are you running ~ I finally went with Tri-Spark after I met Steve Kelly ( owner of Tri-Spark corp ) at a three day rally in Australia ~

    I highly recommend it ~ as IMO superior to Boyer for example ~
     
  3. Govig

    Govig

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Hi Stuart, Well if I was choosing a Trident ignition, it would be a TriSpark but I had a brand new Rita system sitting in the shelf. I realise how much power it uses but the Commando Rita has been completely reliable for over 30 years.

    In the days when the Commando was used 2 up for big tours of Europe (some > 3500 miles) I used to take a spare Rita amplifier but it was never needed. In fact the Commando has never in 69000/31 years of ownership broken down in such a way that couldn't be fixed at the roadside. On one occasion, I needed a tool to fix it that was at home but at least it got me home...

    Re: Norman Hyde. there is no doubt this firm knows their stuff but they can talk down to you if you ask a question with an obvious (only to them) answer. They should be above all that sort of stuff! They did my valve guides and provided some parts but then left the smaller centre exhaust port that some triple heads have. I had to open that up myself so I'm not that impressed my them really.
     
  4. Stuart SS

    Stuart SS

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Yes.. I agree there are a few businesses around or were around that typify an arrogance in their dealings.. And I think there are enough good businesses around that the latter should be pulling their act up ~ As it woudl seem "good" way/ attitude to suddenly find their clients have deserted them ~

    After all the Internet spreads word so fast and effectively ~ AKA yourself and my self engaged in this conversation .. lol
     
  5. Govig

    Govig

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    True enough but the reader has to remember they're only hearing one side of the story. To be fair, NH was OK really over quite a few visits but it was just that one phone call that you really remember. Anyway you can also use the net to promote dealers in a positive light too. I don't know how spares for brit bikes are down there in the tropics but if you are stuck for anything give these guys a try. They know their stuff, have a good stock and are always helpful......

    http://tms-motorcycles.co.uk/
     
  6. Stuart SS

    Stuart SS

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Finally did aquick shoot with the perfect matched pair ~

    (The Commando is about ot under go a face lift with new tank, side covers & a new seat ~ zorts roses , header pipes etc etc ~ )

    [​IMG]
     
  7. grandpaul

    grandpaul VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Wow!

    It jumped through a time warp and went from an engine on a bench to a very nice complete bike.
     
  8. Stuart SS

    Stuart SS

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Grand P

    Thanks ~ It was a long journey ~ and it draws a LOT compliments in real life ~ Even the Commando is not done justice in this photo ` as I have had folks cross the roads to compliment the Norton.

    I am still in the process of tweaking ~ but the Trident has come along very nicely ~ and is all that I hoped for ~ apart from <100 BHP > :D

    The Commando is about to under go an extensive face lift ~ with a new UK seat ~ new zorst headers and roses ~ I have a NOS fuel tank and am looking for new side panels to respray to match rather than respray the original side panels ~

    But ALL looking good ~

    Oh ad BTW I have a contact in Brisbane who is a VERY experienced engineer aka drag racer ad general specialist in fuel and engines who has offered to build me a (very special ) set of Amals for the Trident. I am told by a mate that his work is SUPERB ~


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
  9. grandpaul

    grandpaul VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    The front brakes and beauty kit really "do it" for that Trident.

    Very, very nice.
     
  10. Stuart SS

    Stuart SS

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Well I guess it's time for an update been a while ~

    In short I have now 100% sorted the Trident and then even done a make over on the Comando as well ~

    The list is comprehensive ~

    The list includes ( not necessarily on order but since the last post ~ )

    - New GPS controlled Speedo ~ had to create a negative to Positive earth controll unit ) ~ I love it ~

    [​IMG]

    ~ New rebuilt carbs ( rebuilt by retired professional engineer) Superb quality and guaranteed top NEVER wear out plus road tested to 65 mpg from a standard best day average of 35 MPG on a Trident ~ )

    [​IMG]

    Issues included a faulty seal on the inner primary case which caused the clutch plate to seize ! The subsequent issues resulted in a lightened clutch assembly and a new alloy chain wheel and a replacement inner primary cover~

    [​IMG]

    Also had issues with the clutch but resolved with a new Venhill and chucking the no name crap cable ~

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


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    ANd the final masterpiece

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSvwvt1C ... ature=plcp
     
  11. mikegray660

    mikegray660

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Stuart - nice job! almost makes me wanted to get one myself !

    (then again i start to remember how my old one blew up!~)
     
  12. Webby03

    Webby03

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Nice job Stuart!
    Where did you find the GPS speedo? (I might consider one for my Triton)

    All the best

    Webby
     
  13. Webby03

    Webby03

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Nice job Stuart!
    Where did you find the GPS speedo? (I might consider one for my Triton)

    All the best

    Webby
     
  14. Stuart SS

    Stuart SS

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Thanks blokes.. It is certainly a worthwhile project when it all is sorted ! And the lightened clutch and alloy chain wheel made av very notceable difference too . The engine is noticeable much more responsive !

    (My other half cannot get her head around the fact that one HAS to sort such things and that does take time ~
    She made a big gesture with "The cherry on top of the pie" by picking up a new graphics helmet for me ~ but she decided it was time for a new colour instead of RED !! And it is VERY comfortable ~ )

    [​IMG]

    Webby
    I bought the Speedo from The Speed Hut in USA ~ the instrument fitted perfectly into the T160 instrument pod ~

    They only carry negative earth and claim shower proof not water proof. So we designed and built a negative -positive conversion unit ~ a micro circuit ~
    I have ordered 6 units but have no costing yet~ Actually they are not that difficult if you have a little electronics ability and a soldering iron ~


    You will find a design your own section and has acomplete range of options ~ excellent ~ (see link below)
    http://www.speedhut.com/custom_gauge_de ... er-802.htm

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... mELI4e95WQ
     
  15. Webby03

    Webby03

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Thanks for all the info Stuart

    Webby
     
  16. nortriubuell

    nortriubuell

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    ~ New rebuilt carbs ( rebuilt by retired professional engineer) Superb quality and guaranteed top NEVER wear out plus road tested to 65 mpg from a standard best day average of 35 MPG on a Trident ~ )

    Do I READ 65 MPG ... for a Triumph Trident ??? If so ... Fantastic !!! Had a 1975 T160 several years ago; ( last I knew "T160CK02321" was in Southern California ) and the reason I sold it was because of the crappy gas mileage; about 32 mpg on a good day. Man what a beautiful bike though, gorgeous to look at and what a sound 8)

    Luv yer Trident, and 65 mpg ... I would have been super HAPPY with 45mpg ... cheers !!!
     
  17. Stuart SS

    Stuart SS

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    !

    nortriubuell

    Thanks mate ! I am well pleased too..

    Bob ~ the engineer that built the carbs supplied a complete list of the issues he addressed when he rebuilt them... about 30 plus points and precision built ~ Bob owns a stable of bikes now ~ mostly completely restored including an ES2, 4 T160s, plus T150s and an A75 ~

    He and another mate recenlty refurbshed a brand spanking new T160 which had NEVER been run ~

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjunMkOy ... 2BGjfhICs=

    Bob is the one with the durry permanently in his mouth ~ but hey he reckons it is his (VERY BIG) toy shop so he can smoke when and where ever he likes ~

    But spot the bikes ~ including one Norton Commando ~ I can't keep up with these two blokes and their bikes ~ :D 8)

    Another aspect of my bike is that traditionally British bike seats ~ are just uncomfortable especially afte r a couple of hours. I rebuilt my Commando seat with total sucess ~ So did the same witrh this seat I bought a crappy worn out standard seat and cleaned it up ~ then I put a <2"> layer of grey sponge and over laid with a slightly thinner green layer ! And a new seat cover to finish .. totally worked ~ superb ~

    COz I think the over worked cliche about bikes are never meant to be comfortable is a load of BS!
     
  18. Stuart SS

    Stuart SS

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Some great shots

    A classic far north QLD Australian weekend and Easter ~

    Decided to wait for the teamsters, Steve on his T120 69 ad Reimer on his Ducati 850~ early on Sunday morning !~

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Slight change of venue this morning.. not as many today ~

    [​IMG]

    A large group of sports bikers turned up from Townsville (QLD) on a northern Weekend tour, and there was considerable conferring and chat ~

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. hobot

    hobot

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Even slicks works decently in the rain on our size tires so totally ignore the thread pattern and install front tire so brake loads are in line with the arrow, Ie: if a rear tire put on the front, reverse the arrows, but if front specific tire put arrow in rolling direction like the rear. The weave tightens under arrow direction loads but can buckle and shift bugle in the other direction, ie: china finger hand cuffs sort of thing. Mostly its a total not issue for everyone that don't try stoppies on their commando. Also its fine to mix-match radial and bias ply tires. Might be able to detect issues if races on edge of traction and handling. But may find mix-match improves the limits.
     
  20. Stuart SS

    Stuart SS

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Had another set back with the Clutch~ Seems I am dammed to &^*^ Hell with this clutch~

    ( I killed the clutch fairy here ~ but as far as I can see this new clutch plate was a Friday afternoon Special~ in fact a 15.50 hrs model~ )

    See the included photos which show the minimal contact on the opposing faces of the clutch plate versus to the basket and pressure plate!

    A team of us present, and via discussion / email / phone have flogged the issue to death as there is still some three of us with Trident clutch issues !

    Anyway I measured / gauged / micrometer and dial gauged every aspect of the complete components ~

    In the end I found nothing untoward with the pressure plate and basket ~ I replaced the after market pull rod as it had a number of issues ~ I refitted the original OEM "top hat" pull rod ~

    I also replaced the Spider which is part of the chain wheel and primary drive. ( The spider is the centre part of the cush-rubbers configuration .)

    The linking shaft and spline showed some wear in the inner casing roller bearing. So I purchased a second hand one on EBay y and had it rebuilt by an appropriate profession~ They are rare , no longer manufactured but can be rebuilt ~

    I had the bloke forward the spider and centre spline to me along with the old unit. Turned out the original one replaced was in nice shape~ But the early ones have a short rear shaft as opposed to the longer late model ones~

    Mine was definitely worn and both the replacement ones are a far better fit in the bearing!

    Firstly the clutch proved to convex / concave. Check the narrow bands of contact !!

    No wonder the clutch went to %&^^% !!

    There was NO oil on the face ~ I approached the vendor in UK that sold me the clutch plate ~ He denied any issues !!

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]

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    I reiterate~ All components tested to be true ~ !!

    The baskets and chain wheel in fact demonstrated zero run out to variance ~ all components true and parallel!

    I resurfaced the clutch plate to parallel and flat~ And the result left the clutch plate still some 5 mm wider than the minimum suggested amount of thickness !

    Now the weather has been crap for some 3 weeks and the bike has been sitting, reassembled ready to go, in the garage ~ waiting ! All tests on the floor have been totally positive


    So Hobot your sentiments regarding Norton V Trident clutches are ringing true right now !!
     

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