Thunder Products

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There's probably a very simple way to make your own UFO but I don't know how the epoxy material would hold up in a flow of atomized gas.. unless... you used the modeled shape to fabricate an identical part.... using it's dimensions to machine another out of aluminum or brass?

There's an epoxy putty that is in 2 parts. You merely unpeel the separating material and knead it together for a minute or so and it is like a malleable putty. If you had a carb you were willing to use to make the part, you can line both the bottom of the carb and the bottom of the slide with plastic wrap. Then just fill the bottom of the slide up with the epoxy and maybe let it set up slightly maybe a minute and then press the slide down into the carb body. It will conform to all the ridges of the carb inside and when it sets up ..PRESTO you have the shape you need. You could take that part and even replicate it from aluminum or bass on a lathe and use a Dremel moto tool to take away unneeded material.

Carburetors have always had a checkered past with fuel saving gadgets and also a history of people swearing both, that they work .....and also lots of people...swearing AT them.
That, unfortunately ...IS.. a ROADBLOCK for lots of people and.... the thought persists of getting stung with carb devices. Motorcycle riders want things sorted out, mostly, especially carb things. The idea behind it... is sound and the reason why Mikuni and AMal never got with it could be any number of reasons. They had a solid demand for their existing carbs and the mind can be lazy with success of an existing design.

One example of missing what is right there...in front of our noses... is the idea behind a crossplane crankshaft as Yamaha now uses. That idea was ALWAYS there but no one keyed into it. ANd its a simple idea as well. For many decades it went unnoticed in all the engine building that went on in racing and from personal innovation.
Everyone missed it.
Calling that crossplane innovation..more snake oil ....now that its available in production....would be going against strong evidence that better balanced motors... are a good thing. Kevin Cameron wrote an article explaining how power is spun up better by minimizing opposing inertial forces.

As far as ME authenticating MY results... on a dyno ..as a favor to a derisive skeptic... to convince him of anything ...that's not gonna happen. .... SORRY. Don't wait up ...on the HP readings.
Nobody is gonna take anyone's hand and walk them through life to keep someone safe from false advertising.

If you're extremely fortunate someone MIGHT out of the goodness of his heart... share something with you.... but if you are not that kind of person yourself, its highly unlikely.
Dennis gave me some fabulous feedback on his Flatslide Mikuni and provided me with his jetting notes without hesitation. I was blown away with his carb notes and his willingness to provide me the details.


The Flat slide carb uses the same idea as what the UFO is based on... with a smooth flow of air at low throttle openings through the carb throat and beyond , doing away with the turbulent air after escaping the Jetstream under the slide. That is common knowledge. It works.

Someone just had to figure it out, and come up with a solution.
This idea can be read about on another website JWS ( Schmitt) or something like that... where he develops PMK Keihin flatslides for the Norton and Triumph twins.

Magazines have tested the Thunder products UFO installed on dirt bikes and snowmobiles..with some pretty glowing reports. Some research will pull up those tests.

Hobot felt the response in Wesleys VM Mikuni single and Hobot had nothing at all to do with the tinkering or investment in it! How does that figure in any PLACEBO theory?

Wesley had his UFO given him and the jetting info as well. I don't see how you can say his results has something to do with his own investment in it causing a PLACEBO effect?

Ludwig came to ...the identical CONCEPT on his own. Maybe he ate some of those... PLACEBOS...and.... came down with something?

You will never get... more BACK .... than you are willing to invest ...in yourself... or in others.

I just happened to answer an inquiry and provided "my FEEDBACK" on the Thunder Products device based on my work to explain ....what is necessary, if you consider purchasing the UFO.

The Thunder Products Crossvane device....I think its around $100. The UFO if I recall was $49?

Smoke 'em... if you got 'em....

Tman
CNW 009 (licensed to THRILL)
 
No, I have not used them so can not make a recommendation.

The gains claimed about low throttle openings look OK, but could also be BS!

Nevertheless, it looks to me, that for a racer, the main benefit here is that it almost turns mk1 Amals into smoothbores at WOT. Smoothbores give better WOT power, so these should also...

Please try them, and feedback to the rest of us!
 
Tomato man said:
The idea behind it... is sound and the reason why Mikuni and AMal never got with it could be any number of reasons. They had a solid demand for their existing carbs and the mind can be lazy with success of an existing design.

I don't think that is sound reasoning for why Mikuni and Amal and other's have not done this. I think it is because the device alters the overall performance of the carb and the carb manufacturers want a consistent range in performance. To say that the companies are lazy is not a very good argument. They have excellent engineering and product development...they also understand application and performance.

I would question whether Thunder has anywhere near the engineering or expertise of Mikuni.

The fact that there is a performance increase that can be felt with this type of device may be real or it may be a perception based on and improvement in response at a certain point in the throttle position, such as from idle to 1/8 or 1/4 throttle. There is an explanation for this, but a properly tuned and jetted carb should give a similar response. The real proof is in whether there is a change in overall performance and whether any HP increase is real or not. In the case of the Mikuni flat slide there is a velocity increase over a round slide carb, but the carb still needs to be tuned to deliver the proper A/F mixture for the given engine displacement and configuration. There is a definite "response" difference between the flat slide and the round slide, but I doubt if there is much difference in HP with the change if any.

Tomato man said:
As far as ME authenticating MY results... on a dyno ..as a favor to a derisive skeptic... to convince him of anything ...that's not gonna happen. .... SORRY. Don't wait up ...on the HP readings.

Nobody is gonna take anyone's hand and walk them through life to keep someone safe from false advertising.

If you're extremely fortunate someone MIGHT out of the goodness of his heart... share something with you.... but if you are not that kind of person yourself, its highly unlikely.

I think the real question is why doesn't Thunder publish the data to support their claims? It reminds me of the aftermarket CDI ignitions that claim all sorts of performance improvements on newer bikes and ATV's. They merely eliminate the factory retarded condition that was forced on the manufacturer's to meet emissions. Is there a difference? Sure, the engines run like they should have because the timing curves are where they are supposed to be. There is a major perceived improvement but relative power is not changed much at all.
 
hobot said:
Huh even placebo effect is pleasant enough to keep em in business a while.
Here's and install on snowmobile so likely don't apply either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZztLDlwyis


Damn, Steve, that video was installation on an Arctic Rat! Totally different animal! They run on Purina Kitten Chow... Here's (another) dead one being dragged out of the woods :mrgreen:
Thunder Products
 
a standard Commando on a dyno jet will probably show around 50bhp


I think Jim Comnoz stated a stock Commando put out 44hp at the rear wheel on his dyno....

seems to make sense as I just had my EFI Triumph Bonneville on the shop dyno, 61 hp at rear wheel at 7K rpm
and this is a 2012 bike with 865cc and DOHC short stroke motor with aftermarket exhaust and induction modifications to open up the breathing
 
Ugh concours that's not the kind of dragging this thread is about and dare ya to put one them sleds on THE Gravel or like recent on the sloosh snow on top of mud ontop of ice layer with some THE Gravel sticking through.

45 rwhp is doing good for basic standard tuned Commando. Finer tuned with factory parts DynoDave won the rally dyno with a bit over 49 rwhp on 750 similar to Cdo, but with hehe a small port head. Above upper 60-70's you need head work and cam and compression and fuel change$. Above that entails crank up mods then drive train and on and on. i've had two engines dramatically wake up with just intake flow turbulizers,vortex generators and funnel like pressure helper. If you also connect the two headers well it can also help below red line.
I myself am split brain, deciding one my Combat's was just fine as issued for sane thrills and no brainer parts ordering, the other one is spending to reach cloud 9 so it can dog fight with UFO's. Still if it involves more JBW I'm such a sucker...
 
For those who want to believe, here's some heresay on how to tune compensate for UFO alleged increase of flow and suction, on snow craft so may not apply to other piston engines of course. Not a single objective measure but some rules of thumb to go by to get the more power 'sensation' out of them. No one mentioned the extra external fuel circuit they sold even longer than Unobjective Fueling Unit.

http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/3 ... rvous.html
 
Simple way of evaluating any benefit would be on a flow bench or a before and after test on the bike with a suitable manometer connected downstream from the carb on the inlet stub.

Despite what I said in previous posts, benefit may be marginal on a road bike where the choke slots are still used. Also there's still going to be plenty of turbulence behind the slide except at WOT.
 
hobot said:
For those who want to believe, here's some heresay on how to tune compensate for UFO alleged increase of flow and suction, on snow craft so may not apply to other piston engines of course. Not a single objective measure but some rules of thumb to go by to get the more power 'sensation' out of them. No one mentioned the extra external fuel circuit they sold even longer than Unobjective Fueling Unit.

http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/3 ... rvous.html


I think that if you add up all the horsepower claims from all the Thunderproducts carb add ons, you will be improving power by at least 30%, cheap at $500. I'm surprised that they don't claim that their products turn back baldness and cure impotence :lol: :lol:
 
hobot said:
For those who want to believe, here's some heresay on how to tune compensate for UFO alleged increase of flow and suction, on snow craft so may not apply to other piston engines of course. Not a single objective measure but some rules of thumb to go by to get the more power 'sensation' out of them. No one mentioned the extra external fuel circuit they sold even longer than Unobjective Fueling Unit.

http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/3 ... rvous.html

Remember, snowmobiles all use a CVT system that keeps the engine at it's power peak at all times. (8000K RPM) low-midrange is not an issue like manual transmission vehicles.
 
hobot said:
For those who want to believe, here's some heresay on how to tune compensate for UFO alleged increase of flow and suction, on snow craft so may not apply to other piston engines of course. Not a single objective measure but some rules of thumb to go by to get the more power 'sensation' out of them. No one mentioned the extra external fuel circuit they sold even longer than Unobjective Fueling Unit.

http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/3 ... rvous.html

You mean the "Power Jet" branded external plumbing?
 
"Power Jet" branded external plumbing?

Yep especially on hill climbing events and Mt. road rides and cross continental elevation changes or in low pressure zones of huge thunderhead storms. Wes's UFO'd single Miki surprised me and sport bikers when I was showing off at a rally on paved parking area to leave underlying impression when I reflect on it of the righ now strong wrist pull right off idle and on up. I've not run Wes's but to 70's so don't know if can match or beat my factory Combat above 90's but it pulls engough to leave me wondering.

I'm keeping the 34 Miki with the UFO and Power Jet in mind for Ms Peel 920 for main long term fueling as can flow over 100 hp and should be more than plenty for a torquey lower rpm engine use and 20 lb off w/o Drouin and no need of crash cage so lean angle increased to boot. Try it you may really like it.
 
hobot said:
"Power Jet" branded external plumbing?

Yep especially on hill climbing events and Mt. road rides and cross continental elevation changes or in low pressure zones of huge thunderhead storms. Wes's UFO'd single Miki surprised me and sport bikers when I was showing off at a rally on paved parking area to leave underlying impression when I reflect on it of the righ now strong wrist pull right off idle and on up. I've not run Wes's but to 70's so don't know if can match or beat my factory Combat above 90's but it pulls engough to leave me wondering.

I'm keeping the 34 Miki with the UFO and Power Jet in mind for Ms Peel 920 for main long term fueling as can flow over 100 hp and should be more than plenty for a torquey lower rpm engine use and 20 lb off w/o Drouin and no need of crash cage so lean angle increased to boot. Try it you may really like it.

Why don't you just get a Flat Slide Mikuni that already has the increased velocity out of the box? A lot less playing around to get it tuned in and all the "supposed" benefits of the UFO device.
 
Dennisgb , reread the original post??!!

Cant use flat slides to make the race class under our rules here in NZ with the NZCMRR I have flat slide on my Roadster
Thanks and understand the 'snake oil concept' was interested to see if there was any history out there.
Regards Mike
http://www.nzcmrr.com/events/rules;jses ... 6E93536758

See Item 20Regards Mike
 
Brooking 850 said:
Dennisgb , reread the original post??!!

Cant use flat slides to make the race class under our rules here in NZ with the NZCMRR I have flat slide on my Roadster
Thanks and understand the 'snake oil concept' was interested to see if there was any history out there.
Regards Mike
http://www.nzcmrr.com/events/rules;jses ... 6E93536758

See Item 20Regards Mike

:mrgreen: :wink:
You can be our test mule
 
Brooking 850 said:
Dennisgb , reread the original post??!!

Cant use flat slides to make the race class under our rules here in NZ with the NZCMRR I have flat slide on my Roadster
Thanks and understand the 'snake oil concept' was interested to see if there was any history out there.
Regards Mike
http://www.nzcmrr.com/events/rules;jses ... 6E93536758

See Item 20Regards Mike

My post was directed to Hobot...already understand you can't do it.
 
Dennis Peel is mainly meant to be a daily rider with some spunk that handles on and off road better than anything else I've tried and instant torque hits enough to break free rear for little skip/step/slips outs to ease steering safety w/o risking front traction, so just a spiffed up UFO's Power Jet 34 Miki should be plenty with the 920 capacity, even if can't feed it to full power breathing potential. I plan to first run in and maybe live on the flat slide 40mm Lake Injector w/o blower belt on, so already got flat slide on hand, if I can tune it to both idle and fuel at higher rpm/loads. A local ride can go from 400-2000 ft elevation changes which is about enough to possible notice help of power jet filling in on regualar carb. There is a way to fit a float bowl feed to the gravity fed Lake, so may even get some benefit with a power jet on the Lake injector, which basically is just a Power Jet type feed that self meters by air mass flow not venturi sucktion like regular carbs. I love these gear head distractions of real life affairs.
 
hobot said:
Dennis Peel is mainly meant to be a daily rider with some spunk that handles on and off road better than anything else I've tried and instant torque hits enough to break free rear for little skip/step/slips outs to ease steering safety w/o risking front traction, so just a spiffed up UFO's Power Jet 34 Miki should be plenty with the 920 capacity, even if can't feed it to full power breathing potential. I plan to first run in and maybe live on the flat slide 40mm Lake Injector w/o blower belt on, so already got flat slide on hand, if I can tune it to both idle and fuel at higher rpm/loads. A local ride can go from 400-2000 ft elevation changes which is about enough to possible notice help of power jet filling in on regualar carb. There is a way to fit a float bowl feed to the gravity fed Lake, so may even get some benefit with a power jet on the Lake injector, which basically is just a Power Jet type feed that self meters by air mass flow not venturi sucktion like regular carbs. I love these gear head distractions of real life affairs.

Is this the bike with the supercharger or just carby? Maybe a flat slide pumper would be better with elevation changes.
 
Thunder Products


" At full throttle this twin choke AVT 40 SU Carburettor would feed the 27 litre V12 Merlin with 4 Gallons a minute, or a litre every 3 seconds of 100 octane aviation fuel ."

Thunder Products
 
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