Strange Frame
- Thread starter olChris
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Is the Tank Steel ? ?
DID the widowmaker have that sidestand lug ?? Does it have the gusseted inner top shock mounts ( 1973 ) .
blasting / dipping it ??
Chopping it all off and redoing to your specs would be fun .
Could thow in a 3 in top tube & seat rail horizontal to cr frame raisers if you end the top tube there ?
Wonder what diameter tube youd squeeze in under the tank ? you can build a SS coustom something with it there .
DID the widowmaker have that sidestand lug ?? Does it have the gusseted inner top shock mounts ( 1973 ) .
blasting / dipping it ??
Chopping it all off and redoing to your specs would be fun .
Could thow in a 3 in top tube & seat rail horizontal to cr frame raisers if you end the top tube there ?
Wonder what diameter tube youd squeeze in under the tank ? you can build a SS coustom something with it there .
Im a very happy man .. 3/3.. got the wire buff onto the filler and removed ~3kg of weight? found a frame number,(Look At the Photo's) and there was/is a single gusset weld in triangular section.. Clearly a piece of scrap and easily removable and the 2 flaps are added for /???^%????? WHATEVER but easy removable... I can see when PO2,3,4 has removed the front tank mounts.. ie there are grinding scars on that posistion...
Only negative i found was that previously the rear hoop was cut off and now replaced and needs to be welded.(no weld at all). Not quite sure what is holding it on apart from a tight internal sleeve, but i will find out!!!
Im not sure how to add multiple photo's in here in one go .. But im sure when you open this and "i think" you will see a picture of my "Trailer Case".. If you click on the picture it should transport you to my Photobucket where there another 6 or so photos... and other crap ...
Can somebody verify its year and approx month of manufacture please....
Only negative i found was that previously the rear hoop was cut off and now replaced and needs to be welded.(no weld at all). Not quite sure what is holding it on apart from a tight internal sleeve, but i will find out!!!
Im not sure how to add multiple photo's in here in one go .. But im sure when you open this and "i think" you will see a picture of my "Trailer Case".. If you click on the picture it should transport you to my Photobucket where there another 6 or so photos... and other crap ...
Can somebody verify its year and approx month of manufacture please....
L.A.B. said:
I took particular notice of the "arch" and yes there is a deviation in the backbone......... It is apparent directly adjacent to where the two angular uprights and horizontal triangular brace meet... From my previous work experience with pipe work it is clearly obvious that there "has" to be an arch or bend in the backbone from the shrinkage caused by the welding..... Depending on the welder, on the day no two frames will have the exact same "arch/bend", thou similiar, due to variables in the weld procedures. (that can be another thread)... I assume the frames would have been "Jigged" up and fully welded and allowed to cool in the jig.. Any heat used to straighten the "arch" upon removable would have transfered stresses elsewhere.. not good..
Therefore im comfortable with the 6mm deviation in the backbone....
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You just do them one by one ,
. thrown this on for you ( I hope )
Looks like someones been reading those CHOPPER magazines .
The Profesional Opinion . :lol: :lol:
Matching Numbers ( hows the gearbox stamped ?? ) 1972 ish , should have a rear breather on cases.
Later they fitted a gusset as part of the inner upper shock mount and for 73 ? where the Mag.
would be - just a 1/2 in odd steel tube jutting out & down - there .
So it must be a COMBAT ( just kidding , though check . Not everyone considers them the end of the world )
====================================================================================
NOW , out with the Disc Grinder . Being carefull , youd just cut into each weld a way , and hose down - so as
to not get areas red hot and missaligning . Being more carefull youd use a transformer so no-one gets electroplated .
And do the cuts sequential - side to side - so thingos are even . Like welding one up .
Throw a gusset into the rear subframe & weld it , so it doesnt fall off again . Though if its a track bike , a plug in 3/4 Dia. tube
guard mount would suffice . These are sacrificial as when you go in to hot , you toss it away backwards , so it doesnt pulverise you .
Wouldnt use the slugs , though a ncely made and fitted gusset under the top tube , as per the Dreer devices would deail concerns
as to wheter it will / would suffer from previous depradations .
Looks like someones been reading those CHOPPER magazines .
The Profesional Opinion .
:lol: :lol: Matching Numbers ( hows the gearbox stamped ?? ) 1972 ish , should have a rear breather on cases.
Later they fitted a gusset as part of the inner upper shock mount and for 73 ? where the Mag.
would be - just a 1/2 in odd steel tube jutting out & down - there .
So it must be a COMBAT
( just kidding , though check . Not everyone considers them the end of the world )====================================================================================
NOW , out with the Disc Grinder . Being carefull , youd just cut into each weld a way , and hose down - so as
to not get areas red hot and missaligning . Being more carefull youd use a transformer so no-one gets electroplated .
And do the cuts sequential - side to side - so thingos are even . Like welding one up .
Throw a gusset into the rear subframe & weld it , so it doesnt fall off again . Though if its a track bike , a plug in 3/4 Dia. tube
guard mount would suffice . These are sacrificial as when you go in to hot , you toss it away backwards , so it doesnt pulverise you .
Wouldnt use the slugs , though a ncely made and fitted gusset under the top tube , as per the Dreer devices would deail concerns
as to wheter it will / would suffer from previous depradations .
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If you arnt going to use that tank
you can throw it At Me . 
Somebodys rear shock set up .
Was a 750 with Dunstall headers and upswept cans & NSR ? 250 honda suspension in CMRC around 72 , the wet year .
Young guy on his black ride to work Roadster , steady on the throttle while everyone ( miles ) behind tip toed round
tentitively .
So they fit too , with a custom alloy cradle . As does a LOWER rear Iso , under the gear box . V Good move - This .
Id cut and mess and fit and tack with 1/8 in. welds , then take it to a pro welder whove youve witnessed his art ,
and give him the big lecture on sequential patterns so distortion is eradecated in process .
This will get it looking a million dollars . And we can get it around a track really quickly .
Not sure if the hobots rear sphere link rod means you could direct mount a wide mount swing arm direct to chassis ?
That fulcrum is crucial for steerage , so see its secure , or better immoveable other than on its axis . As in coustom .
Matt Spencer said:Is the Tank Steel ? ?
DID the widowmaker have that sidestand lug ?? Does it have the gusseted inner top shock mounts ( 1973 ) .
blasting / dipping it ??
Chopping it all off and redoing to your specs would be fun .
Could thow in a 3 in top tube & seat rail horizontal to cr frame raisers if you end the top tube there ?
Wonder what diameter tube youd squeeze in under the tank ? you can build a SS coustom something with it there .
Hi Matt , THe tank is f/glass.. Im sure that its not a w/maker now after the excavating i did on it today.. Found the frame number 207446, not sure yet its birthday, but for sure after 70
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Numbeers . 1972-commando-750-serial-number-t16809.html
" Hi Matt , THe tank is f/glass.. " bugger , its only worth ten dollars then . :x wouldve thought it was steel from the photo . Never Mind , ive been fueled before . Apparently its in how the gastank opens .
Theyre selling smoked fish balls downstairs . Apparently you have the same problem . so they made a law against it . The Steel ones open up Fwd. Hinged Aft . So as to avoid the problem . Not that I noticed it .
Rub it back to see if its delaminateing / had a hit . Theyre a comfortable one compared to others . Two breadboxes chopped up make a semblance to a P.R. tank though , if they still threw them out . ( 72 Tri ) .
or you just weld a foot in . Seeing it doesnt explode of course . Ive found it hard to make water explode ,
so fill tanks with that when welding . Though not fibreglass ones .
" Hi Matt , THe tank is f/glass.. " bugger , its only worth ten dollars then . :x wouldve thought it was steel from the photo . Never Mind , ive been fueled before . Apparently its in how the gastank opens .
Theyre selling smoked fish balls downstairs . Apparently you have the same problem . so they made a law against it . The Steel ones open up Fwd. Hinged Aft . So as to avoid the problem . Not that I noticed it .
Rub it back to see if its delaminateing / had a hit . Theyre a comfortable one compared to others . Two breadboxes chopped up make a semblance to a P.R. tank though , if they still threw them out . ( 72 Tri ) .
so fill tanks with that when welding . Though not fibreglass ones .
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AHHH .
So it IS . . .
a COMBAT . ! :lol:
just kidding . but IF the underside of the HEAD is about level with the fins ,
and the holes measure 32 mm / 1 1/4 " , we're in luck . Cam may well be stamped ' S S ' on casting .
Youll put the push rods where no one can jump on them .
These ones are the Hot shit , wether Combat or Not .
Cant trust that guy with the welder , Hes likely weldedup the Tag retainer holes , or Bogged them .
So it IS . . .
a COMBAT . ! :lol:
just kidding .
but IF the underside of the HEAD is about level with the fins ,and the holes measure 32 mm / 1 1/4 " , we're in luck . Cam may well be stamped ' S S ' on casting .
Youll put the push rods where no one can jump on them .
These ones are the Hot shit , wether Combat or Not .
Cant trust that guy with the welder , Hes likely weldedup the Tag retainer holes , or Bogged them .
Matt Spencer said:AHHH .
So it IS . . .
a COMBAT . ! :lol:
just kidding .
and the holes measure 32 mm / 1 1/4 " , we're in luck . Cam may well be stamped ' S S ' on casting .
Youll put the push rods where no one can jump on them .
These ones are the Hot shit , wether Combat or Not .
Cant trust that guy with the welder , Hes likely weldedup the Tag retainer holes , or Bogged them .
Bottom end is sealed up and recond... i ask re cam and he informed it was a "mild/street cam" Def not standard so will take it as it comes.. Head is off so will go look and take pics tommorow.. Not sure wot u mean.".and the holes measure 32 mm / 1 1/4 " , we're in luck" do you mean ports?? valves?? ....
Retaining holes for ID plate are not ... have not ever been there!!!... Will take some real close pics tommmorow..
but IF the underside of the HEAD is about level with the fins???? will investigate!
Cleaned all those gussets out today.. Heaps of string lines squaring up and meassuring angles, just to see... Virtually all were in a bees dick except these two in pic which were not parralell,, They are now with some help...
Matt........ Ports in head are 32mm .. Decided to strip in back down.. I see new pistons and was told big ends, but the "honing" job is very back yard basic so cant help myself.. That way check oil pump, cam, lifters and it "seems" dirty to me...
Im gunna edit this a few time to add photos.. it the only way i can think of doing it
Is this what youmean Matt.. ???
Anybody got an idea what these holes are for... The screw driver stuck through , there not horizonal!! and are not square fore and arft.. Looks like a "random" hole for whatever... Also there are two nuts that can be seen welded on the spine which open into the spine.. :? :? any ideas?? As somebody suggested previously "oil tank" maybe custom.... Unless there is a reason for there being, they will be included into the surgery list for tommorow
Just because
Matt........ Ports in head are 32mm .. Decided to strip in back down.. I see new pistons and was told big ends, but the "honing" job is very back yard basic so cant help myself.. That way check oil pump, cam, lifters and it "seems" dirty to me...
Im gunna edit this a few time to add photos.. it the only way i can think of doing it
Is this what youmean Matt.. ???
Anybody got an idea what these holes are for... The screw driver stuck through , there not horizonal!! and are not square fore and arft.. Looks like a "random" hole for whatever... Also there are two nuts that can be seen welded on the spine which open into the spine.. :? :? any ideas?? As somebody suggested previously "oil tank" maybe custom.... Unless there is a reason for there being, they will be included into the surgery list for tommorow
Just because
Rohan, yes i just went and had a good look from directly above head to head steady area and saw nothing at all regarding stamping... It would be hard to know whether the head is original or not.. Its suppost to be recond, eg "multi angle valve seat" (i dont think so) ..The valves are definately not new... I have alsonoticed one collet is not seated correctly so if i have to breakout the spring compressor i will barebone it.....
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" Anybody got an idea what these holes are for... The screw driver stuck through " ? ? :shock: Hideing his drug stash ? :x :lol: Mayve tried the oil tank tube trick , which is why I was saying a
big ' U ' section let in under will cover a multitude of sins . And also stiffen the steering head in relation to the rear mounts ( if you put a second rear Iso in under the gearbox ) IF it were
to run right back to the rear of the 2 1/4 top tube . Maybe in two pieces , Rt & Left - joined on centerline & 2 1/4 ( same width as top tube ) Wide . Cutting the cross brace gusset & reinstateing
a bit to match in under the new brace - as in lower gusset bit 2 1/4 wide .
Get Ahead . :? looks like I have to dig out someones note thing again . Appears there were THREE 32 port ( 1 1/4 in real money ) Heads . Original 1 mm / 40 thou shaved 10 : 1 C. R. ' Combat ' .
Then the ' Woopsie , we're haveing trouble ' version / s Shaved 1/2 mm or 20 thou , & the Unshaved Std. C.R. one .
Most Combats seem to just match the machined face to the edge of the fins . Maybe after being resurfaced .
One that a ruler across the gasket face will get a 1mm thick something between it and the fins at the machiined face / fin junctions UNSHAVED .
One that gets a 20 thou. / 1/2 mm thingo under , is halfway to Combat C. R. , and About Right . picture looks maybe THIS , thoug a angled shot
catching the gasket face & valve heads from the side , would be appreciated . And particularly one glareing at the ports multitudeinously , when the
valves are OUT .
New Valves are thicker and heavyer . 1st Regrind thyve eroded a bit , so are about right . Enough meat to carry the heat & not warp .
a light kiss with a cutter on the VALVE at the seating face , gets them true & round .
Anyone cutting the seats in the head to recess the valves will be shot . :lol:
' WE ' re aiming for the outer edge of the valve and the inner edge of the port to be 1.47360 differant radius . therefore 2.54700 mm diferant dia. ( just kidding , but thatd be about right for minimum narrowness of seating face / match . Has to have a gnats dick clear out as valve head expands at 7000 continuous after 30 minutes . Wich is why thin headed old 50.000 mile valves arnt really suitable .
but ones under 10.000 miles likely are .
big ' U ' section let in under will cover a multitude of sins . And also stiffen the steering head in relation to the rear mounts ( if you put a second rear Iso in under the gearbox
) IF it wereto run right back to the rear of the 2 1/4 top tube . Maybe in two pieces , Rt & Left - joined on centerline & 2 1/4 ( same width as top tube ) Wide . Cutting the cross brace gusset & reinstateing
a bit to match in under the new brace - as in lower gusset bit 2 1/4 wide .
Get Ahead . :? looks like I have to dig out someones note thing again . Appears there were THREE 32 port ( 1 1/4 in real money ) Heads . Original 1 mm / 40 thou shaved 10 : 1 C. R. ' Combat ' .
Then the ' Woopsie , we're haveing trouble ' version / s Shaved 1/2 mm or 20 thou , & the Unshaved Std. C.R. one .
Most Combats seem to just match the machined face to the edge of the fins . Maybe after being resurfaced .
One that a ruler across the gasket face will get a 1mm thick something between it and the fins at the machiined face / fin junctions UNSHAVED .
One that gets a 20 thou. / 1/2 mm thingo under , is halfway to Combat C. R. , and About Right .
picture looks maybe THIS , thoug a angled shotcatching the gasket face & valve heads from the side , would be appreciated . And particularly one glareing at the ports multitudeinously , when the
valves are OUT .
New Valves are thicker and heavyer . 1st Regrind thyve eroded a bit , so are about right . Enough meat to carry the heat & not warp .
a light kiss with a cutter on the VALVE at the seating face , gets them true & round .
Anyone cutting the seats in the head to recess the valves will be shot .
:lol: ' WE ' re aiming for the outer edge of the valve and the inner edge of the port to be 1.47360 differant radius . therefore 2.54700 mm diferant dia. ( just kidding , but thatd be about right for minimum narrowness of seating face / match . Has to have a gnats dick clear out as valve head expands at 7000 continuous after 30 minutes . Wich is why thin headed old 50.000 mile valves arnt really suitable .
but ones under 10.000 miles likely are .
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Big bit of paper with writeing on it .
:? :? :? . would depend how you read this perhaps . BUT is stated elsewhere more than once , that they used Combat PORTED heads Without the planed surface , so lower than 10 : 1 comp. ratio .
I would have to dig it out to check IF the two OTHER hights IS correct , as written . Which means it might be correct . Thicker Gaskets were produced to decompress Combats anyway .
CHECK the Tappet Toe positioning at the top of the Valve Stem , contact point . - BEFORE pulling the valves . please .
A couple of good shots of the valve seat area in head / port , should be indicitive of milage . evident through recession . cureable by larger valves seating further out , raiseing C. R. and eliminateing blanketing .
:? :? :? . would depend how you read this perhaps . BUT is stated elsewhere more than once , that they used Combat PORTED heads Without the planed surface , so lower than 10 : 1 comp. ratio .
I would have to dig it out to check IF the two OTHER hights IS correct , as written . Which means it might be correct . Thicker Gaskets were produced to decompress Combats anyway .
CHECK the Tappet Toe positioning at the top of the Valve Stem , contact point . - BEFORE pulling the valves . please .
A couple of good shots of the valve seat area in head / port , should be indicitive of milage . evident through recession .
cureable by larger valves seating further out , raiseing C. R. and eliminateing blanketing . - Status
