Strange Frame

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olChris

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Oct 6, 2013
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Found this within a project package (72/3 Commando) that i viewed today.... I could not find any stampings on the frame and the owner mumbled a few "widowmaker" phrases.. Ive have done a little research on here re widowmaker but found differences..

I did note that there was body filler around neck area so some obvious coverup work has been done.. From my limited knowledge it looks to me PO has "gusseted" triangular section of the frame possibly for strength and rigidty and smeared with filler.... Any opinions on this frame from you eagle eyed crew

The engine has a serial number ... 207^&* .. with no factory stampings either end of number and the numbers tho single hit and true similar depth, they are not straight and a little mismatched with spacing and alignment..... Were/did all commando's have those circular factory stampings... And could some suggest what year the engine is (750)

With this potential project im not fussed with matching number scenario... Thank in advance for your input

EDIT>>>The owner also commented that the "new" headstock bearings are tapered

Strange Frame
 
Has the steering head been gussetted with welded steel (sheets), or bondo. ?!
Without blasting it clean and having a good look, that could be anything from quite evil to quite substantial gussetting.
Will all the bits and bobs (coils, tank etc) bolt up to it ??

The number should be stamped into the front of the steering head.
207*** engine would be somewhere in 1972, so quite a mismatch of years.
 
I think its been "sheet" plated and smoothed of with filler.. From the pic below, what i understand to be a reinforced widow/m frame, as seen there is no triangular section as per my Mk3 frame.. So why would somebody box in and/or gusset as per my original pic,, Unless of course it just been broken and repaired...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-18Un ... ll+034.jpg
 
That pic is of an un-reinforced frame.
They snap through the top tube, beginning just under the back of that short gusset (the one just behind the steering head.)

Your frame looks to be someones attempt at reinforcing that style of 'widowmaker' frame.
Whether it is a good idea, or a cosmetic bodge is anyones guess ??
Sorry to be the messenger of potentially bad news...
 
Rohan said:
That pic is of an un-reinforced frame.
They snap through the top tube, beginning just under the back of that short gusset (the one just behind the steering head.)

Your frame looks to be someones attempt at reinforcing that style of 'widowmaker' frame.
Whether it is a good idea, or a cosmetic bodge is anyones guess ??
Sorry to be the messenger of potentially bad news...
Click to expand...

But, it's got the '71-on forward cross-member and side stand lug? The headstock (and yokes) also appears to be '71-on type.
 
It also looks like some additional gusset has been added on the side of the top tube where the seat loop joins?

What really concerns me is the tank/coil mount bracket is gone and will need to be fabricated, and the head steady mount seems to have been filled/removed.
The head angle looks unchanged though.

Lots of work to get back to something like, but anything's possible.
 
So could be that this frame is just a reworked matching frame to the engine. ??
Or was, before it was reworked...
 
Thanks Rohan.... Ive been looking at Old brits exploded views of frames 70-75 and they seem very much identical apart from a few extra holes here and there.. Geomentry and structure are to me same (ish)...

Being an old school retired Boilermaker/Welder a "cracked" frame has little significance to me apart from the fact i dont have any Argon on hand and will endeavour to identify the material. Im sure there are people on this site will advise me what it is and what gas pressure to use...

Subsequently looking over this package this morning i have put a deposit on it and will pick up tommorow .....

People often use the phrase "basket case" on this site, well down here is sunny OZ we do it better and we have "trailer case" ... (just made that up) But it means a shit load of bits spread from arsole to breakfast.... Will post up a pic or two of my "trailer case"..

JUst as a "footnote" and thinking welding frames.. Late 1960's my fartherinlaw put two JAP 500's? in a speedway solo bike and ran for a couple seasons .. All stick welded and probably used galv water pipe.. He was an ex farmer with no formal trade qualifications at all ... Makes me laugh about todays welding procedures sometimes.. Anybody over 60 will understand this!.....
 
Tomorow i will get in there with a 5" grinder with course wire brush and will see what the %$@* going on... Bit like Xmas (are we allowed to say that) Never know what you will find... Either way its the least on my concerns.. but cant wait to find out..
 
There is some sort of lug or union on top. Did somebody start on an oil-in-frame conversion, also intending to use the area between the tubes ? The main spine itself does not have sufficient capacity.
 
Hopefully they have not removed the bottom of the main tube, and at the rear of the main tube what is the wavy line, another gusset plate ?
 
79x100 said:
There is some sort of lug or union on top. Did somebody start on an oil-in-frame conversion, also intending to use the area between the tubes ? The main spine itself does not have sufficient capacity.
Click to expand...


It seem that PO1(prior/past owner) who got it from the PO2 (Previous owner) suggested he had a "cafe racer" style idea in his head, as did PO2 and now does PO3. That gotu's bucked (Me, present owner = 3 )........... :D :D :D :D (just practicing my Hobotism)

So tune in 24hrs from now and "we all" will know WTF its all about..... :) :) :) :)
 
kommando said:
Hopefully they have not removed the bottom of the main tube, and at the rear of the main tube what is the wavy line, another gusset plate ?
Click to expand...

ooooooooooohhhhhhh aaaaaahh dont say that :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( Oh, anything possible.... Thanks ... now i wont sleep to night (now 7pm) Grrrrrrrrrrrrr
 
On the frame by the main tube there are 2 "flaps", A bit like squid wings that i think is also strange.. I know there a abit hard to see in pic but they "flap" out ~75mm each side... and there part of the frame, eg welded ... (cafe seat?? )

I would think that they are not meant to be there ??
 
olChris said:
On the frame by the main tube there are 2 "flaps", A bit like squid wings that i think is also strange.. I know there a abit hard to see in pic but they "flap" out ~75mm each side... and there part of the frame, eg welded ... (cafe seat?? )

I would think that they are not meant to be there ??
Click to expand...

This looks like some one persons personal idea of a custom. Many times people start down the path of customizing with meager skills. Ditch the frame, a decent one should be fairly easy to find. You'll thank me.
 
Is it the camera angle or is the top tube arched from a previous accident. What's a straight edge tell you?
 
This is one of the reason I hate taking on someone else's project basket case.

I have a 1988 Honda Hurricane in the corner of the shed that the guy did bondo on the frame (to pretty it up). Why? If you know the Hurricane it has plastic covering every inch of the frame. Multiple times I've wanted to use that frame because I have a title for it, but every time I pull it out it looks like more work than it's worth and I have no idea what stuff is messed up under the bondo.

For the most part I've always stayed away from basket cases unless it's a good parts deal. Just too many surprises.

I hope the price was right on this one, because you likely will be searching for a frame or dealing with proplems through out the re-assembly.
 
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