Standing quarter times.
- Thread starter Combat Col
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Newest bike I rode over limits was Ninja 900 at corner school and set my bench mark on peg folded fairing scatching fat hot tire spinning corners leaving race instructors one shift behind by apex. I have '00 'curvy SV650 with upgraded suspensions on non DOT race rubber. I've ridden against angry young squids in their practiced paths and with vactioning racers on paired down 600 and 1000's with matching factory bright suits and trashed knee pucks. I now don't even consider other motorcycles as fair game, no mater their hp if the straights are under 1/10 mile, they can't catch up in time even pulling wheelies till have to slow up so dam much for next turn, but me on tri-linked Ms Peel could stay on harsh power, the kind that any tip of bike made rear squirm out, so just let that aim her around till more upright hook up out of there w/o let off. I was rather shocked on my own findings that sports bikes could not put down much power into turns nor take the corner loads of my ole spiffed up Cdo.
I just got my factory Combat going and rode the snot out of it a few days ago with experienced buddies - it worked me to weary over 280 miles to brake in time and hold off the fork shakes and chassis jello wiggles. No way could it keep up with my 70hp/360 lb SueVee, but Ms Peel could run circles around and and ahead of SueVee same with other 600's of the early 2000 vintage. 900's and bigger could out run me up to speed on take offs but got left out of sight if I got a clear space in the twisties to zoom around. i am a G force addict and sensitive and nothing satisfies hit of joint pull and brain sloosh I got on Peel. May be faster spring bikes around but don't think there is a funner bike to throw around.
So sneer out loud criticizing my claims - as Ms Peel is about to take her first baby steps on her 'too tall to sprint' suspension and engine is just details away to be sent to install. I've had various hot rods, 2 wheel, 4 wheel and boats so know I better be very alert and prepped before pulling the trigger. But there is this subconscious reflex that snaps throttle w/o my rational decision, which leaves that part in wide eye disbelief hanging on for dear life, again and again " )
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hobot said:
Claims made on the net and what actually happens in the real world are 2 entirely different things dont you agree?
Have been around car and bike drags since early 70's and I thought that too. Terminal speeds can vary a lot depending on gearing and the way you get off the line but this only makes sense if he stopped accelerating at 3/4 track with a 15T gearbox sprocket limiting top speed! FWIW my relatively stock 750 but with fairing and clip-ons etc managed a 13.36 @ 102 on a run what you brung test day 2 years ago. That's an overworked (read too big and too smooth ports)Combat head with std cam and a belt drive giving the equivalent of a 22T box sprocket. 7000 in first two gears, 6500 in third. Wasn't prepared to push any harder with a 90 mile ride home. One reason old bikes can be relatively quick is their gearing which in the 1/4 comes close to top speed in 4th. A modern 600 or 1000 will be 30-40 mph short of that and geared the same (max revs in top thru the lights) can take a half second off their times, if they can master the consequent wheelspin/wheely off the line. Talk of 10 second Commando times is difficult to believe but I'll stand corrected if it is ever proven.
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Re read above - One Eight of an mile not a 1/4 mile - duh.
My interest is drag racing through turns not bee lines, but dog-gon-it, bee line sprints is the only fun I can have with others, so brewing up a 500 lb bike rider combo to give it a go -round and round as well as straight up blasts. Best I can figure next Ms Peel will have more torque per mass than sports bike/pilot combos, if not the hp to mass, but pretty close there too... Range of elites is under 4 lb per hp.
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"When the flag drops the bullshit stops"............. maybe worth bearing in mind when it comes to Nortons which can outperform modern sports bikes, with nearly 200bhp on tap!
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Yeah man a pretty tall wish - been fun figuring out and building up for it. Stay tuned to see what happens on leaning courses and them bee line tracks. BTW did ya ever plug in Peel's data into engine calc I left a while back? I know the crank can't take much rpm horse power but may take the torque part of equation. Just measured Peels resting topped out hi center frame clearance at 10", wouldn't that count for something : ) My 100 lb wife held up Peel so I could slip blocks underneath but tranny and most the engine not installed yet.
So far the magazine reviews show factory elites SR1000, Ducti 1198 and Ninj 1100 etc not quite breaking 10 sec 1/4 mile - 160 mph. Hopped up and chassis altered ones can break under 6 sec. Out the box they touch 190 mph top out.
One thing that encourages me was having experience a few times of me and Peel launching out of a 1st or 2nd gear turns and leaping ahead into the next one while they just wheelied and had to back off. I'd hold Peel to 60 in 1st and 90 in 2nd when all alone as didn't take that wipe the sneers off out here. Peel is limited to 130 wide tire so may be bee line traction limited, but should still give me whiplash even if not besting elites to 150 mph.
One fun thing on trying to break an obsolete cycle in front of folks is all hooting and hollaring cheering the crowd does to see and hear a funky long in tooth Norton lining up to let go...
So far the magazine reviews show factory elites SR1000, Ducti 1198 and Ninj 1100 etc not quite breaking 10 sec 1/4 mile - 160 mph. Hopped up and chassis altered ones can break under 6 sec. Out the box they touch 190 mph top out.
One thing that encourages me was having experience a few times of me and Peel launching out of a 1st or 2nd gear turns and leaping ahead into the next one while they just wheelied and had to back off. I'd hold Peel to 60 in 1st and 90 in 2nd when all alone as didn't take that wipe the sneers off out here. Peel is limited to 130 wide tire so may be bee line traction limited, but should still give me whiplash even if not besting elites to 150 mph.
One fun thing on trying to break an obsolete cycle in front of folks is all hooting and hollaring cheering the crowd does to see and hear a funky long in tooth Norton lining up to let go...
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As you have the power, then why not modify the frame to fit a wider swinging arm and wheel, so you can be sure of bettering those modern sport bikes in the drags, as well as through the turns?
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Will do , only been intending to for 30 Yrs . . . 
RIDEABILITY as the propaganda service ( advertiseing stated )
Seen a Steam Train , with 5 carradges, an old ' Main Trunk Line ' loco pull out of a country sideing one evening.
10 mph acceleration @ Ea. Stroke , or better , 5th chuff it was doing 60 mph , cut on 6th to quitely putt of @ 50 mph.
TORQUE is what defines acceleration , H.P. top speed .
as for gearing , Stock Pre Unit had std. single row 24T
on the crank ( less loss than duplex ! ) and came on the
pipes at 93 / 94 mph in Third ,run to 105 throttle lifted
or 110 on the stop. But Dont Miss the Shift . :mrgreen:
Could throw out in lower gears , later traced to soft index plunger spring .
Command whilst requireing higher concentration and finesse wasnt slower.
Commando didnt like gravle roads , Bonnie fine @ 115 indicated on newly poured foot deep gravle road .
Suzuki 1100 Katana weave starts at 25 mph on loose surfaces, even hard ones.Uses over one lane @ 65 mph ,
and dont try cornering with your knees , arms folded . Itll follow camber changes .
Basiccally a big pig of a bike with lots of everything except finesse. Yam 500 2 strokes supercedded them P.R.
on the race track , as the GS had to the XS 11.
Saw a Trident with straight back & six bend bars do the GS100S in the final at a street meet , From the line to the finish .
marginally but deciseively all the way opening the gap , about 1/2 sec win .
The average Kiwi afficcianado spent more time on his machine than other recreational pusuits .
RIDEABILITY as the propaganda service ( advertiseing stated )
Seen a Steam Train , with 5 carradges, an old ' Main Trunk Line ' loco pull out of a country sideing one evening.
10 mph acceleration @ Ea. Stroke , or better , 5th chuff it was doing 60 mph , cut on 6th to quitely putt of @ 50 mph.
TORQUE is what defines acceleration , H.P. top speed .
as for gearing , Stock Pre Unit had std. single row 24T
on the crank ( less loss than duplex ! ) and came on the
pipes at 93 / 94 mph in Third ,run to 105 throttle lifted
or 110 on the stop. But Dont Miss the Shift . :mrgreen:
Could throw out in lower gears , later traced to soft index plunger spring .
Command whilst requireing higher concentration and finesse wasnt slower.
Commando didnt like gravle roads , Bonnie fine @ 115 indicated on newly poured foot deep gravle road .
Suzuki 1100 Katana weave starts at 25 mph on loose surfaces, even hard ones.Uses over one lane @ 65 mph ,
and dont try cornering with your knees , arms folded . Itll follow camber changes .
Basiccally a big pig of a bike with lots of everything except finesse. Yam 500 2 strokes supercedded them P.R.
on the race track , as the GS had to the XS 11.
Saw a Trident with straight back & six bend bars do the GS100S in the final at a street meet , From the line to the finish .
marginally but deciseively all the way opening the gap , about 1/2 sec win .
The average Kiwi afficcianado spent more time on his machine than other recreational pusuits .
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Carbon get one thing straight Ms Peel is ***All About Cornering*** and I have proven to me that fat tires suck big time except for essentially upright hook up, which ain't leaning to turn, duh. I have proven to me that the only thing that matters in leaned turns is tire compound and air pressure, not the width. While Everyone Else and their little sister only thinks of hi power for straight and wheelies my reason for big block blown power is to extend the speed Peel can pull side ways wheelies in apex, I *abhor* straight line wheelies. Main reason for fat tie is the heat handling as size of patch is pretty darn close to K81 19" tire if pilot/bike mass similar.
If bike has the power and traction, it can lift the front out of traction in leans, but wide rear tire can not hook that up until after the apex and relieving loads getting more upright - so have to go real slow into turns, Not tri-linked Ms Peel, who even with only small port Combat power would be shifting and throttling up going into turns so any leaning made tire break loose to lean more till rear slide around to grab hook up w/o any power let off. Every other cycle Cdo's included are hard on brakes where Ms Peel is pumping up power acceleration harder. This is the point where Ms Peel leaves the motorcycle building like Elvis, where every one else is crashing or trying to avoid it, Ms Peel is entering the first of 3 more phases of going around Way Harsher!!!
Can you find any references in all of history about 5 phases of turning. Nope nothing but boring phase one upright parking lot turns and phase 2 leaned counter steering, which can only go so far because front tire ain't pointing the way to go and then ain't got much grip to aim anyway, pashaw. I have felt like the 125's playing with sport bikers, leaving them behind in the twisties only to have em gain back the lead in the 1/10-1/3 mile long opens, but not often able to pass me - because I slowed up for public blinds i'd had crisis surprises in, or there were real turns to face coming up fast and they'd be hard on brakes to disappear again for my solo only riding, and could pick up the pace w/o endangering them to try it like Ms Peel can. I never ever pressed anyone from behind so not to tempt them into deadly errors on unstable modern elites. To me moderns I've rode and rode against are parking lot cone salonm markers to zing around any way I like.
There is something important about the shape or the contact patch on edges, just like snow or water skiers...
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If you dont have much power I would agree that skinny section tyres work just fine...............be interesting to see some of your 1/4 mile times, when you have your blown race bike up and running.
lcrken
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swooshdave said:
I posted them a couple years ago to the files section on the INOALIST on Yahoo Groups. They are still there. I'd post them here, but they are .pdf files, and I don't see anywhere on this forum that I can post them.
FWIW I also posted Dunstall catalogs and the Production Racer parts catalogs and spec sheet there. If you haven't checked it out, there's a lot of good stuff there.
Ken
lcrken
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AussieCombat said:
Here are some rear wheel horesepower results that I know to be correct, not heresay or rumour.
Steve Maney 920 - 88 hp on the Hobbsport Racing Dynojet dyno somewhere around 10 years back
Ron Wood/Axtell short stroke 750 - 84 hp on Axtell's Heenan Froude brake dyno in the 1970s
My 750 Sportsman AHRMA racer - 62 hp on the AMI Dynojet dyno at Daytona around 1995
If I recall correctly, the best Axe did with Ron's standard stroke 750 was 76 hp, but I'm relying on memory for that.
A typical stock 750 Commando does well to show 50 hp at the rear wheel on an accurate dyno.
As someone else mentioned, it's not generally accurate to compare hp figures from different dynos. The whole subject of the numerical corrections used to get from an inertial drum dyno to hp figures deserves a book of its own. Results from steady state brake dynos can be compared to each other, as long as you know they were properly calibrated, which is not necessarily the case. Results vary also depending on whether the dyno is driven by the friction of the rear wheel or from the drive chain.
Jim Comstock can probably provide some interesting comparisons of different Nortons on his dyno.
Ken
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Factory Norton horsepower rateings were at the Crankshaft ,Triumph (oops) at the gear box output. As this was where their Dynos hooked up .
Unlike japanes which were at the sparkplug on the drawing board . :shock:
:mrgreen:
Unlike japanes which were at the sparkplug on the drawing board . :shock:
:mrgreen:
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Its the interesting part I want to share on Ms Peels unknowns. In several ways she is unlike anything else. The core is her energy storing deforming tire conflict relieving Watt's like half rigid-half flexy chassis that somehow seems to significantly improve hook up, which then leads to handling more power. My amazement as much as yours is I paid $3000 to take someone else's motorcycle on a clear track and put it to its very limits of lean and traction, THEN NIAL THE SNOT OUT IT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. EUREKIA!!!!! Its exactly like THE Gravel, Which is exactly like slalom water skiing which is similar to snow skiing, except rather easier than any the above which my body is imprinted to the spinal bones with - then then then ...
I broke in Ms Peel accidental expedient mutant combo that could indeed out run my wimpy SV and stick with or out run '04-'05 600's with muscular youths on them.
After some weeks I got her worked up in turns to match the G's I got on Ninja hot fatso tires, then GAVE HER THE TORQUE, nothing new happened SO I GAVE 'ER THE GUN. EUREKA!!!
WayTheFuckMORE lean stick and acceleration hook up G's wrist straining eyeball tunnel vision hard to change focus on Fast Zoom in features than them sports bikes could ever dream of... I can fly a stupid sports bike out of it stupid danger tank slapping chassis dance to let it settle down in flight to land and take off on rev'd up power on smashed down tire patch sideways, but they are so unpredictable splashing of resonance, just not worth it for such little extra speed thrills )>>> that Ms Peel delivered while still in ho hum phase two steering modes.
If you do everything right on a sports bike they can still just lift tires sideways right off track to fly out at a tangent, if not done on purpose ahead of time its crashes. Takes too dam much skill for me, so hats off respect to real racers that have to ride em - ugh.
I can not come near the loads on modern race only tires compared to what I could on dual purpose grooved narrow tires. Part of the Flabbergasting term I use so often, its flys against anything I or any one else apparently has experienced.
I know what best traction wear looks like, it ain't abraded away nor melted away, its drawn out thin sheets off each groove edge or very rim edge of a slick. It makes a hum-howl sound, not a chirp nor a squeal nor a whine. Just short of max traction/slip will show imprinted road texture in tire to the grittiness level.
Alas old Ms Peel ran out of umuphF above 90/2nd gear to break free at will or lift the nose around in time, or wind up the chassis so tight it sling shots far enough to spin in flight enough to be aimed for the bounce away which does not crash only IF I can Hit it with torque at impact to crash exactly the opposite way each and every time and condition in any line I like as predictable as next heart beat and just as short to change directions.
I sound like I'm out of my gourd but what the < Hi CR, small chamber, drag cam'd Maney 920, Schimdt piston'd, Collin's Crank shaft and Canaga surgical corrected and fitment, cyrogenic, dry friction, thermal barrier, black body emission coated 116 octane, anti-detonation fluid, 4 curve reactive optical trigger'd spark, 10+ PSI centrifugal blower, active Hole Shot air muscle'd adaptive suspension and ape hanger bars> means to me is tire howling drag racing into severe decreasing radius turns w/o losing time-acceleration pull skipping out or air borne. Means I can lift the front over logs and creek banks and tear up raw hill sides and power line cuts that makes Pikes Peak look like what it is - a wide mild tour bus route, pashaw, they paved it now dam it.
One thing I've found is if it works on THE Gravel It works in spades on tarmac. If my stunting stuff set up Ms Peel pays off in bee line numbers wonderful if not so what. Please list prior cycles that needed supercharging to corner harsher, please, pretty please, with clean oil on top, in carbon fiber bowl....
Just loaded mocked up Ms Peel on trailer next to my factory Trixie Combat, Peel is almost obscene radical compared, taller with a barrel chest. Its scaring me to view what is sitting there withing striking range now.
My sign off motto describes phase 4 turns in the tightness chicanes around, wagon trail on bluff face 10 mph marker and inside apex rails all knocked down as too tight for trucks and trailer that literally must jack knife em... rails and cliff faces
come up so fast, i enter 50 to 55 and exist over 60, that a human can not force forks hard enough nor fastest enough before bug on rocks or over the brink, so a throttle snap will trip Peel out instantly into a low side crash so far down when I cut power she grabs a hi side that instantly throws the front the opposite way to land just where it needs to and mostly upright but on a Smashed Down Tire Patch that can take a SPIKE of Torque out of there. I can only do this as fast as power to crash on purpose and to resist the 2nd crash landing by brute counter force. This is the all around most useful way to have fun on Ms Peel. So far its the least effort way to control Ms Peel as only R wrist is working, planted solid centered low on bike weight on rear tire. I do have to use breath control or brain gets dark. I could not hang on but that Peel can focus all the turning loads back wards down into the rear patch inter face, ie: in line with normal suspension action sitting bolt up right, or at drag strip floating front tire into the future...
So far I have not had power to practice much phase 5 style but on THE ever loving mommy soiling GRAVEL paths.
We loaded two bikes over grass, Ms Peel felt like a bicycle compared to Trixie, even on totally flat tires, cool.
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Here's more fun ways to use power in essentially straight lines. The hill climbing stuff is good practice for drag strips with touchy traction on rear only.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZJUDaYBuOU&feature=related[/video]
I had dreamed of doing this then saw it on youtube. Notice all mass on rear to let the front just float and not rudder bike right down like it does them elite road racers. Not all of em make if across.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TRCroy3DKs&feature=related[/video]
This is exactly how i have to get to hit the ton on THE Gravel, going faster and faster to keep front floating and out of much traction is fine but boy howdy coming off power plants front and gets crazy to control. At these speeds on THE Grit it becomes like a hard plane on water, skis climb to tops of wave crests and I can not keep tires in the smoother low ruts - bike automatically climbs their sides to center of loose Gravel ridges, which at first freaked me out but realized just another phase transition of physics and better that way. It seems like same effect as belt drives, that hump the pulley surface so belt self centers, tire profile seems to act like that. The next wild thing was entering Gravel sweepers nearing the ton, if I let bike go like ordinary one, using the outside berm slope as banking, tire would climb the edge berm to fly into fence or ditch, but if I added more power, reflex-ly at first, Peel trip/fall down more into the turn till front tire was on the inward slope of rut and suddenly the front was crashing a low side inward while the rear crashing a hi side outward to nullify each other with a frame twist that forced rear harder into the surface so I could stay on increasing power, till freaking out on approaching blind, then all hell breaks loose as energy reduces and drops Peel's front back into ordinary traction handling phases I so detest in moderns, a juttering rudder at the front, ugh.
Can't remember using the brakes to go around faster, but sure read them brag about it in magazine and racing reports, huh?
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZJUDaYBuOU&feature=related[/video]
I had dreamed of doing this then saw it on youtube. Notice all mass on rear to let the front just float and not rudder bike right down like it does them elite road racers. Not all of em make if across.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TRCroy3DKs&feature=related[/video]
This is exactly how i have to get to hit the ton on THE Gravel, going faster and faster to keep front floating and out of much traction is fine but boy howdy coming off power plants front and gets crazy to control. At these speeds on THE Grit it becomes like a hard plane on water, skis climb to tops of wave crests and I can not keep tires in the smoother low ruts - bike automatically climbs their sides to center of loose Gravel ridges, which at first freaked me out but realized just another phase transition of physics and better that way. It seems like same effect as belt drives, that hump the pulley surface so belt self centers, tire profile seems to act like that. The next wild thing was entering Gravel sweepers nearing the ton, if I let bike go like ordinary one, using the outside berm slope as banking, tire would climb the edge berm to fly into fence or ditch, but if I added more power, reflex-ly at first, Peel trip/fall down more into the turn till front tire was on the inward slope of rut and suddenly the front was crashing a low side inward while the rear crashing a hi side outward to nullify each other with a frame twist that forced rear harder into the surface so I could stay on increasing power, till freaking out on approaching blind, then all hell breaks loose as energy reduces and drops Peel's front back into ordinary traction handling phases I so detest in moderns, a juttering rudder at the front, ugh.
Can't remember using the brakes to go around faster, but sure read them brag about it in magazine and racing reports, huh?
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You seem to be someone who has had many years of riding serious competition machinery, in a wide variety of different events. Perhaps you could provide some more details about this, and where you intend to race your supercharged drag bike, when its finished?
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