Standing quarter times.

Combat Col · Jul 11, 2011

Went to test and tune night at the local strip (Willowbank) for a bit of fun on Sat night.
Managed a best run of 14.28 @ 90.53 mph. I'm no professional drag racer, have a non functioning revometer and am about 93 kilos.
Pretty pleased with the result, all things considered.
I heard somewhere that a stock Combat ran 12.4 many years ago, no doubt with a 60kg pro piloting. The question is, "Who's done what ?"
Curious to know any real figures, and what is a realistic expectation.
I'd like to think that if I lost 10 kgs and had a bit more practice, we could be in for mid 13's ?? Any thoughts ??

grandpaul · Jul 11, 2011

I've heard plenty or reports that stated 13s, never ran one down a strip myself...

debby · Jul 11, 2011

One of the magazines back in the day (I think it was Cycle Magazine) did high 12s on a "stock" 750 Commando (not a Combat, either). Rumor has it the motor had been highly modified before the test bike was delivered.

Debby

rpatton · Jul 11, 2011

Gordon Jennings said someplace that those Commandos were about as stock as Tony Nicosa was just like any ordinary rider.

Jeandr · Jul 11, 2011

rpatton said:
Gordon Jennings said someplace that those Commandos were about as stock as Tony Nicosa was just like any ordinary rider.

They were well prepared and did not cheat in any way according to the rules Cycle had at the time unlike HD who also had a well prepared Sportster but with racing parts stuffed in the engine. The only "clean" bike of the whole group was the Suzuki Titan 500 and except for the Suzi, all the others ran a lot faster than they did in the hands of regular owners. The only time I took my bike to a dragstrip, I had 3 runs before I broke the gearbox and managed a 13.998, at 165 pounds back then I was clearly 50 to 60 pounds heavier than the flyweight Cycle used to run their 12.69 e.t. These days, I would be slower and more afraid of breaking something so my e.t. would probably be closer to what a Chevette would manage :wink:

Jean

rpatton · Jul 11, 2011

Jeandr said:
They were well prepared and did not cheat in any way according to the rules Cycle had at the time...

Jean

What makes you think that? Gordon told me that just about all the manufacturers cheated like hell. Nobody at Cycle ever said, "Why don't we just get our own bikes to test off a showroom someplace." It was probably because they'd miss out on all the fun. Gordon, Anderson, and all the rest were consummate cheaters. Email Steve Anderson some time and ask him about 'Talladega Overdrive'.

1up3down · Jul 11, 2011

I have a book that has all the Commando road test from 1968 to 1976.

They all are between 12.6 to 14.1, with most of them around 13.2.

Did not seem to matter if they were stock 750, combat or stock 850s.

Bruce MacGregor · Jul 11, 2011

Somewhere in all my old stuff, I have a slip from the drag strip in Epping ,New Hampshire for 11.72 on my, 1971 Norton, 810 Dunstall kit, Big valve head, 2>1>2 Dunstall exhaust (Back around 1973 or so) Stock looking bike except for the dunstall stuff. Bike weight was ~390 LBS My weight 165. Stock Red tank, dual Dunstall front disc brakes , I sold it to some one in Southern Mass. to make a morgage payment or two on my new house about 1980. I wonder where that bike is now?

Jeandr · Jul 11, 2011

rpatton said:
Jeandr said:

They were well prepared and did not cheat in any way according to the rules Cycle had at the time...

Jean

Click to expand...

What makes you think that? Gordon told me that just about all the manufacturers cheated like hell. Nobody at Cycle ever said, "Why don't we just get our own bikes to test off a showroom someplace." It was probably because they'd miss out on all the fun. Gordon, Anderson, and all the rest were consummate cheaters. Email Steve Anderson some time and ask him about 'Talladega Overdrive'.

That is what Cycle magazine wrote back then, they stripped the bikes and compared them to stock machines picked from a showroom. The Norton had signs of being well prepared, but nothing they could call cheating. In regular road tests, the bikes may have been carefully chosen too in order to keep from getting bad press for a broken bike.

Jean

Rohan · Jul 11, 2011

Norton published Tuning Sheets 1 & 2 back in the 1970's to explain how to tweak your 850 to duplicate that 'stock' (looking) 850 that did those 12.x sec quarters. And the 142 mph 2 way average speed at Elvington - its is even mentioned in the 1974 brochure.

Dennis Poore apparently wanted Commandos built like that, like the Combat series previously, but it would not pass noise tests of the time, hence the tuning sheets. And the Combat experience should have suggested this was not a good idea... ?

swooshdave · Jul 11, 2011

Rohan said:
Norton published Tuning Sheets 1 & 2 back in the 1970's to explain how to tweak your 850 to duplicate that 'stock' (looking) 850 that did those 12.x sec quarters. And the 142 mph 2 way average speed at Elvington - its is even mentioned in the 1974 brochure.

Dennis Poore apparently wanted Commandos built like that, like the Combat series previously, but it would not pass noise tests of the time, hence the tuning sheets. And the Combat experience should have suggested this was not a good idea... ?

Does anyone have the Tuning Sheet available to post?

Hobot · Jul 11, 2011

Cycle magazine drag shoot out event mentioned above blew away everyone wit 12.26 sec. by a crew form England tuning prepping it.

AussieCombat · Jul 11, 2011

Does anyone have genuine (dyno) Horsepower and Torque figures...
STD 750
Combat
810 Kit.
850.
920/940/980.
Race bikes.
There could be some interesting comparisons.

dynodave · Jul 12, 2011

Quite a few years ago, I dragged my combat (21t sprocket). I was about 200 lbs back then.
I could rev out 3rd gear and hold through the traps or shift to 4th, but shifting actually made it slower.
I think I was getting low 15's, MPH in the 90's
I read in a dunstall atlas road test that a magic barrier would fall if you lit up the back tire. I believe it.
I did not want to shock abuse my drive train so I never really got great times. I would slip the clutch for the hole shot.
Rock hard rear tire will get the back tire spinning much easier. This tire spin technique is just using the stored energy from the 22lb crankshaft/flywheel spinning at 6000rpm. Then the engie is allowed to continue to run "upstairs" where it is making some torque.

My next attempt will have a 18T sprocket, and RGM CR gearbox.

swooshdave · Jul 12, 2011

AussieCombat said:
Does anyone have genuine (dyno) Horsepower and Torque figures...
STD 750
Combat
810 Kit.
850.
920/940/980.
Race bikes.
There could be some interesting comparisons.

You can't compare HP figures unless they are all done on the same dyne at the same time.

Hobot · Jul 12, 2011

Thank you for the launch details David, those tend to get the better of me the hard way. Check avatar rear tire, ugh, bad ju ju hit me an instant later.

I want my Peel Cdo to break under 10 sec 1/4 m. but know I don't always get what I want... yet been pleasantly surprised now and then by trying...

Pure standing start drags are not real world useful but boy howdy is the Norton grunt once general road speed attained, it can basically keep up with sports bikes or better them in 2nd gear zone 40-80 mph while they must peddle gears a couple times.

A full drag race 750 Norton with best there was in late 60's, but still Norton, could break under 10.5 sec on a slick and under 11.5 on street tire. It was some the most glorious times I've had in my life short of Ms Peel even stronger cornering G's.

AussieCombat · Jul 12, 2011

Yeah I know PV, but just curious as to how close actual figures are, compared to what the factory says.
For instance.. Combat 65 hp.?
That would make for some pretty powerfull race bikes out there.
Dave, Would your bike not be faster in the 1/4 if you went up a couple of teeth on the back, to keep it pulling in third.? Less gear changes. Torqhey motor.
Or, at 18 teeth, is that low enough to gate in second gear and not run out of puff in fourth.?
Hobot, did they quote H.P. on the 750.?
AC.

Hobot · Jul 12, 2011

No quoted in the article which is posted somewhere under some subject line here.
No factory Combat is going to make 65 hp on pump gas in 7000 rpm zone With special heads and cranks and Hi'r CR they can reach over 80 but not last like a street bike should.

Ms Peel small port ComBat could spin out her tire leaned in 1st and 2nd to over 75 but my P!! could in 4th straight up if going slow enough, otherwise whip lash ya and leave on butt as bike leaped out from under.

Chris · Jul 13, 2011

Hi

The gentleman from England Steve is talking about is Norman White.
He was put on a plane as the cycle guys could not get near the quoted time.
Norman got on the bike & ran the 12 .24 sec time far quicker than the cycle guys. Technique????
This story is in one of the classic mags. Its also on Normans website.

http://www.normanwhite.co.uk

"In February 1973, Norton Villiers chairman Dennis Poore sent him to the USA to prove to the disbelieving American importers that his published elapsed time to cover a standing quarter mile in 12.6 seconds on a standard 750 Commando was true. In front of a large entourage of Press, Norton officials, and world class drag racers he achieved a standing start quarter mile in 12.24 seconds, at the Orange County raceway. As far as we know, this time has never been equalled on a stock Commando"

Norman still runs his norton business from Thruxton in the same place as he worked race developement for JPN back in the day. He is a fine racer & still comes out with the classic club on his blue JPN replica.

all the best Chris

john robert bould · Jul 13, 2011

swooshdave said:
AussieCombat said:

Does anyone have genuine (dyno) Horsepower and Torque figures...
STD 750
Combat
810 Kit.
850.
920/940/980.
Race bikes.
There could be some interesting comparisons.

Click to expand...

You can't compare HP figures unless they are all done on the same dyne at the same time.

Not sure dyno readings mean anything on the road, we took a tuned Velo Venom for a dyno run.
The guy reved the nuts of it! slipped the clutch ..it was very brutal!
Point is...who is going to ride it like that on the road anyway?.....proved the suspected figure of approx 38 bhp..the animal said " i can mayby get another 2 brake with more thrashing...we said no thanks "the conrod is better off still in the engine"!...To me putting 50 year old engines under such strain is Bull Shi#...whats the point?..so you can sit in the pub later telling the lads my velo as 38 bhp....BIG DEAL!!!

Standing quarter times.

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